As rumored, this morning's webOS 1.2.1 update did indeed bring a fix to Media Sync, allowing the Pre to yet again sync more-or-less seemlessly with iTunes 9.0.1. The update brought another tongue-in-cheek changelog note from Palm: "Resolves an issue preventing media sync from working with latest version of iTunes (9.0.1)."
Resolves the issue of Apple now wanting you in, eh? Now it's time to figure out what Palm did this time that took less than 40 hours of work, and how long it will take Apple to put out an iTunes update to break it again. Eventually we're going to reach a point where either Apple will have to radically overhaul the iTunes sync structure to block the Pre, or one of the two parties relents and stops hacking/patching their software. Given the enormous number of iPods on the market right now, it'd be a daunting task for Apple to completely reprogram iTunes to block the Pre, and at this point they're starting to run out of ways to tell if an iPod is really an iPod, short of asking for serial number authentication.
Clearly, Palm has decided to ignore the protestations of the USB Implementers Forum, and considering that there's not much the USB-IF can do in this matter, that's little surprise. Of course, there are other avenues that Apple and Palm could pursue over Media Sync, and while many of us would prefer that Palm stop applying their limited resource to fixing something that Apple will actively try to break, one does have to admit that their gumption in the face of a media monolith like Apple is impressive. If not a little misguided.
The new update to Media Sync also allows for the synchronization of full photo albums via iTunes (from iPhoto on a Mac or Adobe Photoshop Elements on Mac or PC). The photo sync has also been updated so that it no longer tries to send full size images to your Pre, instead it sends a smaller version to your phone. In Palm's words: "Media sync now allows for synchronizing photos without requiring the full-resolution originals. This provides faster display of high-quality full-screen images and enables users to store more photos on the phone."
So, any bets on how long it takes Apple to rebreak Media Sync, or are you just so fed up with this saga that you don't even care?
Comments
Wow! An early Saturday update!
I gave up on iTunes syncing but I love watching the fight. I love my Macbook and my iPod and they make excellent products for their ecosystem. But I don't understand why Apple feels they need to lock out other excellent products. That stops choice and is just not consumer friendly.
I also love my Macbook and my classic iPod. But in addition, I love my pre and I do want them to work together. I am very disappointed at apple and if it wasn't for the fact the the alternative (windows) is such a horrible choice, I would seriously consider leaving apple products. I am happy that Palm isn't giving up and I hope that they never give this up. I want my Pre to sync with the same iTunes that I sync my iPod.
All Palm needs to do now is develop an excellent alternative for the Macbook Pro and I am there ;-) but I know that's never going to happen.
Wrong, so very wrong.
Consumers have a choice, they can buy a pre. They can buy an iphone. They can buy whatever phone they want.
They also have a choice on what music software they want to use to manage their music. iTunes, SongBird, Rhapsody even, or on a PC, Windows Media Player, Zune, etc.
What consumers don't get to do is tell a company that it has to support products it doesn't want to.
Apple has put a lot of time and money into iTunes, which they give out for free, and they use it, in part to provide a great experience with the iPhone and iPod, where they make money. They also use it to sell music, but thats again mostly to help create a great experience for the iPhone and iPod, they really don't make much money off of it.
Why should they support competitors products from iTunes? As an Apple shareholder I think that would be a terrible idea. It's like Nintendo letting Microsoft use Mario in their games.
"But its MY music! I bought it!"
Yes, you are right, it is your music, and you bought it, and you should be able to do whatever you want with it.
Here's the kicker. Apple already allows you to do that AND they make it easy for third parties, such as Palm, to have access to that music. None of the music you purchased since iTunes went DRM free is locked down by iTunes. It's sitting there on your computer just ready to be downloaded to your pre. All Palm has to do is write a piece of software that syncs it for you. Apple has even made the iTunes library file which lists your music and playlists available in an easily readible XML file format. It's not secret or proprietary, anyone can use it to sync YOUR music with YOUR device.
How do I know that? Because there are already products out there that do it. Blackberry has an app to do it for example.
So what has Palm done? Instead of investing the time and effort to build a quality sync piece for their phone, they are lying. They are pretending that their product is an iPod, violating that USB licenscing agreement and stealing from Apple. Yes, stealing. They are using iTunes without consent. Apple worked hard on iTunes, Palm shouldn't get a free ride unless Apple decides its ok. It's no different than Nintendo not letting Microsoft use the WiiOS or vice versa.
And frankly, if I were a pre owner, I'd be ticked off. Rather than provide a first class experience, Palm is providing a hack, and functionality that can break at any time because its just that, a hack. Its sleazy and lazy.
I considered a pre, it looked like a compelling device and WebOS looked pretty good. But this childish and asinine behavior that Palm is engaging in makes me wonder how much quality and effort they have put into their OS and device. If you see a car dealership trying to sell a Toyota that has had GM OnStar system illegally stuffed into it, aren't you going to be skeptical about the quality of that dealership? The same thing is happening here.
You have choice, and there are right ways and wrong ways to provide you that choice. Palm has chosen the wrong way, the sleazy way, the probably illegal and definitely underhanded way. Whatever flaws Apple has in other areas, and they do have flaws, they are still in the right in this. Palm has a responsibility to do right by its customers, and the RIGHT thing to do is right their own syncing software. If they had done that, customers wouldn't be put through this off again on again process. It would have been the proper and mature thing to do. Instead they continue their childish behavior. And its pretty sad.
Nobody, at any point, has even suggested that Apple support competitors syncing with iTunes. Nor should Apple spend any time or effort making sure products from competitors work with iTunes. The issue is that Apple is active thwarting competitors from syncing with iTunes - issuing updates that purposely break the syncing. They aren't just updating their product and a minor side effect causes the syncing to break.
Yay! I can comment here, but not on the previous post.
Anyway, I wonder why this rivalry has come to this. Anyway, good on Palm for the web and other updates.
I gave up on iTunes. Too messy.
Huh, that's twice now I've inadvertently turned off comments in an emergency article. Gotta wonder what button I'm hitting!
Fixed!
...blessing in disguise really.
Apple software will never have the pleasure of being installed on a PC under my influence so I can sit back and enjoy the back-and-forth between the two companies with nothing to risk.
I'm no attorney, but I think that what Apple is doing could be considered as anticompetitive by the DOJ. If Microsoft's actions of bundling Internet Explorer with Windows-- free software, not paid hardware-- were considered anticompetitive, then it's only a logical conclusion that Apple's actions are just as potentially illegal. Requiring the purchase of only certain hardware to use their software is bundling, plain and simple. Palm has already proven that non-Apple hardware can work with iTunes, so Apple has no argument that can be made around iTunes requiring certain hardware features to work properly. It's time for David to get some help from the government to go after a Goliath that doesn't believe in fair, free, and open competition.
wrong, wrong and wrong again :) let me tell you why
itunes is synchronization tool for apple products and apple approved products only (2-3 older mp3 players made by Creative could sync), that it
it was never meant to be for EVERY device, can i sue palm for not enabling their Hotsync for my ipod? come on, its just stupid
also remember, that ANY program can access itunes library and use it, blackberry and nokia do that already
so you know where is the problem? palm is like "PC" from this "Get a mac" ad http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MimCZikP8cY
instead of investing into good synchronization application, they make more and more "creepy lady" ads (good god, she is EVERYWHERE in chicago)
also problem with microsoft and IE is that it slows evolution of the internet standarts (this was the reason why opera/mozilla/etc complained), just look at acid3 tests, every other browser is 3x better than IE (even mobile safari for gods sake)
"can i sue palm for not enabling their Hotsync for my ipod?"
The difference is he/nobody is asking Apple to enable iTunes for the Pre. Nobody is asking Apple to support it. The point is that Apple is intentionally breaking syncing with the Pre. That's the difference.
Is Apple trying to make your iPod work with Hotsync? No. If they did and Palm intentionally changed Hotsync so your iPod could no longer sync, then maybe.
wait what? palm never asked apple to allow synchronization, they did it on their own, apple found out about it only after first attempt, how is that fair?
besides, go and take a look at "iTunes Music Library.xml" in any text editor, see how open itunes library is? if you would give me one day, even i could make a simple program that displays information about all songs in my library, why cant palm do that? they dont have money? no chance (creepy lady costs a lot), no programmers? hell no, they simply cant make anything better than itunes? you decide :) so far, there was no attempt to do so
Whoa....can we say biased? Are you on Apple's payroll? It's amazing how you don't even make any attempt to be unbiased.
I'm no attorney either, but "bundling" by itself is not prima facie evidence of anticompetitive activity. There are many examples of hardware-software pairs that are exclusive to each other -- cameras, phones, hardware drivers, even blood glucometers. Apple's sin is that Apple was "too" successful. Nobody cared that iTunes only worked with iPods when Apple first introduced it.
"Nobody cared that iTunes only worked with iPods when Apple first introduced it."
Except for a large country called "France."
lets not forget that itunes isnt used just for syncing its also a store.
I prefer the itunes sync verses the drag and drop method. It easily takes care of all my album artwork too. The only downside is that it doesn't handle play counts so it won't update my smart playlists.
I just hope that Rene Ritchie at the iPhone Blog will stop writing essays trying to convince people that Palm isn't looking after its customers by doing this. There are some of us out here who don't mind using itunes and they're simply giving us another option.
As mentioned in a previous post from Dieter (http://www.precentral.net/webos-12-does-not-itunes-sync), I've downloaded DoubleTwist so I don't need to rely on this silly game.
To be honest: I've also completely abandoned the iTunes store - I was one of those people that friends & relatives bought iTunes gift cards for and got a warm and fuzzy buying one track at a time from Apple's store. But once I got the Pre, and the ability to do OTA Amazon MP3 purchases, I haven't even considered using the iTunes store for anything more than "what new songs are out".
So Apple: with this petty game you've lost a customer. I know, Steve will cry little angel tears when he finds out. Bleh.
sweet. i can start using my Pre again.
Yes, now that it has the synch capabilities of a $49 ipod shuffle, you can resume using your highly efficient and capable broadband internet appliance with built in telephone and med-resolution camera. Finally you can justify keeping it charged and can put that iphone you spout about back into the drawer where it belongs. Until next time Apple screws you again by breaking your Pre. (pictures s4mb4 walking around with a Sucrets box that has either a picture of an iPhone or Palm Pre taped to the top of the lid) You're a real heavyweight in wireless tech marketing s4mb4, a force to be reckoned with.
curious. if it meant you couldn't use your Pre. Why did you update Itunes? And even after you did, why didn't you just reinstall the older version?
Honestly, I don't use or care for itunes. I believe this, I purchased it its mine to use. I honestly am getting a little perturbed with palms efforts in hacking/patching itunes. I still cannot forward a text message, record video or utilize visual voicemail as I did on my *dumb phone* (Samsung Instinct). For God's sakes my 10 year olds Samsung rant does all that and my *Smart phone* cannot. Remember the LG Fusic, my wife had one and it had video, message forwarding and visual voicemail. PALM create your own media management software or partner with an existing client, co-brand do something. But first fix message forwarding (video and text), video capabilities, and visual voicemail to name a few. Last I knew the Pre is a *smart phone* and a damn good one. So Palm should leave the itunes thing alone and fix the few items. I see it as pointless and a waste of time hacking/patching itunes. Palm, some of us either don't use itunes, have not updated to the newest version of itunes, and like myself don't use it or care. Here's something for Palm there is a sweet little $30.00 program called Magix Mp3 maker, now at version 15. Work out a deal with them and co-brand it. It sync with almost any device and handles your photo's to boot.
Can all our patches stay for this update..will they still work? Please don't tell me that I have to remove them all...this is a small update after all?
Can all our patches stay for this update..will they still work? Please don't tell me that I have to remove them all...this is a small update after all?
DID ANYONE EVER HEAR OF WINAMP?
I really don't get the love for itunes. Winamp is perfectly capable sleeker, faster, free, and doesn't have these issues.
it just seems people have locked themselves into an inferior and lockedddown product with itunes.
Well, Winamp isn't a real counterpart to iTunes. I think the only one which can compete with iTunes is Helium or even better: Media Monkey.
Winamp cannot get me Cd-Covers from the web, neither can it use the Itunes-Podcast library, and to be honest, most of the Podcasts can be found in that library. I wouldn't know of many of which I listen to every day, if there wasn't an iTunes Podcast library.
Winamp definitely can download album art from within Winamp!
I just listen to my podcast via RSS feed. and winamp can manage podcast as well as download album art. Really winamp packs a hell of a punch for a program that doesn't get much acclaim.
Almost all Podcast these days have both an itunes option and an RSS option. Just use the RSS option and the feed catcher of your choice.
Thank you and Ecoteric,
didn't knew that Winamp can download Album-Art now. Does it save it in the MP3?
The thing I mentionede about Podcasts is not that it is possible to subscribe to them, but most of them are in the podcast-directory of iTunes and not in the free ones I know. Or does there exist a good WebSite where I can find Audio and Video-Podcasts in German?
I couldn't care less about iTunes, or any Apple product for that matte!
WOW this is really fun to watch... Who needs to watch TV, when this drama is playing out over the interweb. Apple -VS- Palm the ultimate fighting challenge... Tom and Jerry continues next... but no wait there is more... Same bat time same bat channel... Got to love it!
I enjoy watching Palm tweak Steve, who has apparently developed amnesia regarding the early days of Apple when he and Woz were the little guys taking on IBM. BUT PLEASE PALM -- if you can spare the resources to fiddle with this stuff, PLEASE assign a couple of programmers to fix the calendar app. Replace the stupid date scroll wheels with a calendar popup like PalmOS and WinMo. Honestly, it can't be any harder than fixing iTunes sync.
I too enjoy the tweaking of Apple. I don't use iTunes and I still love this course of action by Palm. From Dieters earlier post, Palm is not investing very much developer time to do this either. And for that small (several hours) investment, they get tons of "David vs. Goliath" PR which is very good.
I'm completely on your side about improving the calendar app. The date scroll wheels are ridiculous. The calendar on the Treo 300 I bought 7 years ago was better. No joke! The Pre calendar is so much weaker than the PalmOS version. Please Palm, put the great PDA features you have developed over the past 10+ years into the Pre.
Why don't we all hust throw our support behind doubletwist?
Was anything ELSE addressed in this fix, like did they fix the battery drain issues?
Why can't Palm stop this silliness. Those of you who really think it took 5 minutes, 2 hours, or less than 40 hours have NEVER been part of a commercial software development effort. Sure, it may have taken a programmer that amount of time, but what about testing, documentation, deployment, etc?
I would MUCH rather they spend time on features that more people are clamoring for than to keep this silly pissing contest going.
What do you think is quicker/cheaper, changing a couple string variables, or writing a whole new desktop application?
Ok, I installed update with all patches and it removes them pretty much all, so I then removed them all on the second Pre with the emergency patch removal patch and re installed, took me about an hour...its a pain, hopefully no more dumb updates for a while.
I hope we get an update twice a day now! Wow, to not want two updates in two months is amazing. I am sure you are also one that whines about what the phone doesn't do... Unreal!
this install removed the PreWare app.
what are you talking about sir? are you talking about the tweaks, or the actual preware application? the preware app is still intact.
i just wanna say, i knew it! and i called it.. i don't remember exactly where i posted it, but i said i wouldn't apply any hacks because there would be another update soon.. i'm a bad ass! lol
Who cares. Derek just likes to kick over cow Sh*@, just to see all of your knee jerk reaction.
Just as a secondary note, while I don't care about iTunes, to all those bitching and moaning that this is a waste of resources, and such, let me fill you in.
Even if this iTunes hack takes tons of man power, and it takes away from message forwarding (which Jay gave us with his WebOS Quick install tweaks), it also is MEGA free advertising, and not only is it free, but it creates real buzz.
Now, while your complaining that Palm is wasting time, they are getting real media buzz, and thus probably selling a few extra handsets here and there. This all is good for the bottom line, which means they can steal more Apple engineers, or hire some non apple ones, because revenue is increasing.
With the increase in engineers they can implement things like video, and message forwarding, and design more robust hardware, and sell more handsets, please investors, generate cash flow, and continue the cycle of creating a more solid business model.
So quit complaining that you don't have message forwarding, download Jays excellent WebOS quick install, and be happy that Palm is savvy enough to squeeze tons of buzz out of the tech media and social networking outlets spending only what it pays it's engineers to hack itunes.
I understand your point and it is a good one. But I am one of those whiners, whining for picture mail and text message forwarding, visual email and the like. Point is, this is a *smart phone* and it should have had these basic of features to begin with. My dumb phone (Samsung Instinct, my wife and daughters Samsung Rants, and even my wifes old LG Fusic, and an old sanyo we still have from 2006 as a back up 911 phone) all had these basic of features. I don't use itunes so I really could give a frack. Don't get me wrong I will not give up my Pre, unless it just briks on me. But all the *dumb phones* and the other *smart phones* have these basic of features. So while the publicity thing is being generated Palm needs to fix these *basic* of features. Just my opinion.
I don't mind the itunes hack but the text forwarding hack is good butdoesnt cut it... It doesn't allow you 2 forward a whole message that you received, yet......I really hope palm can get video sync into the next update with itunes.
The saying , any PR is good PR for Palm has been used up. They just look like silly little script kiddies now. And you guys are happy about it.
Make sure you teach your kids it's OK to take things that don't be long to them.
You know, like Palm!
Be sure to teach your kids it's OK to shoplift because the store has more than you do.
You know, like Palm!
I don't use iTunes but I personally like Palm fighting for compatibility.
This was something well worth waking up too on a saturday.
Seems as though us Canadians are being left behind again?! first no paid apps (are they in there yet)? Now my pre says it is up to date with 1.2.0
Nope, us yanks still waiting for paid apps also.
But you can get free bandaids (with a nine hour wait) so you're not exactly second class citizens. I moved to another town to get a cable channel I needed. Will somebody move to the US for the privilege of overpriced phone apps?
Is there a secondary route Cannucks can use to get into "our" app store when it's live? I know people feel as though there will be a path for Verizon Pre's to get into the Palm store when Vre is in the market.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/29/no_media_sync_in_new_webos/
^^Palm felt they had to show they can do it if they wanted too.
As much as some people don't think it's a big deal ; I use Itunes for all my music and podcast management. I think it's a big deal and now will upgrade to Itunes 9 :-)
I don't use apple products because I think they run their company like a tyrannical dictatorship with the evil Steve Jobs at the lead. Also, I've just been more fond of the Linux/Windows side of life bc of my like of the opensource movement and my love of videogames.
But, I went with the Pre over an Android phone because of the card feature and their blatant hack of iTunes. The first is awesome and allows me to multitask while the second just makes me proud of the company I gave my money to. Sure, Apple's done a lot for the industry, but its about time that someone stood up against them. Long live the pre!
The choice should be up to the individual to sync his or her device with iTunes not apple its my music. I have the Palm Pre and if apple sends another update i will not download it.
P.S.
New comments should be on the top.
I was hoping that this update would fix the PDF View search problem. But I guess I will wait until the next update.
I have had the same issue. PDF doesnt work on my Pre, don't know if i'm doing something wrong but it doesnt open any PDF's.
Orange button plus c, and tap doesnt work either,go figure. Anyone else having these issues?
To answer the author's closing question, no, I don't care. While this saga is certainly amusing to watch, and I do very much admire Palm's tenacity, the fact is there are so many other ways to sync media with the Pre, it really doesn't matter in the slightest whether iTunes can directly talk to the device or not.
For what it's worth, I think Apple is sadly missing the boat by wanting iTunes only to sync with their own hardware. But that's nothing new. For all their strengths, isolationism and control-freakism (if that's a word) have always been Apple's biggest shortcomings. They do a lot of things well, but playing nicely with the other children has never been one of them.
I wonder how long it will be until we have to endure "I'm an iPhone/I'm a Pre" commercials all over the TV, in addition to all that dreadfully dishonest and misleading "I'm a Mac/I'm a PC" drivel. I stopped buying Apple products as a direct result of those commercials. I happen to like both PC's and Macs as systems, but I absolutely don't like being lied to about what either one can or can't do. I've never seen a PC commercial that badmouths the Mac, from ANY manufacturer, but Apple's only song seems to be to try to badmouth all PC's at every turn. That's a little sickening to me, so for my part, "I'm a PC" and only a PC for as long as that continues.
Hear hear. I find the Mac ads to be disingenious and insulting to my intelligence. They're entertaining, but prompt educated consumers to pry under the subtext and see that Windows as an interface and operating system has come so far in recent years that most of the bitching I see is the result of people being sloppy with the options they're given. Mac is great in offering limited options, so for people with limited capabilities and dillegence, paying double and receiving half as much, seems about the right fee for ignorance.
I will grant that the ipod interface (nothing to do with itunes or iphone) was wonderful and deserving of Macs loyal following, but "what have you done for me lately". When the Mac "fashion" dies down, they'll likely be back in the sinking ship they were in when ipod released and took the rough edges off media players.
On Palm-iTunes, I think Palm should just buy or write software to sync. Others have done it, they could too. Apple has not made moves to prevent other software from cataloging or manipulating media on the system. I view their protection of iTunes partially as a protection of investment. If I invest in engineering a piece of software over 5-6 years, I don't think I would be happy about another company coming along and saying, "hey, great work, you don't mind if we leverage your investment in our competing product right? Great! Thanks... oh, and screw you."
To PreDogs: "for people with limited capabilities and dillegence, paying double and receiving half as much, seems about the right fee for ignorance."
I've never owned a Windows machine, but I've always had one at work. My general thought is that you should buy the tool that serves you best. Those who use a tool often usually prefer to pay more money for a better quality tool. Often, the differences between the inexpensive tool and the premium version are imperceptible to a casual user (that would be you, judging by your comments). In many ways, small and large, Windows gets in the way of my work flow, so I prefer OS X. I appreciate build quality - the Dell and HP computers I've had at work creak and whine and jiggle and just make me feel like I have to be very careful with them. I appreciate attention to detail. OS X has it's issues and sometimes I find myself wondering what the company was thinking when they designed a behavior or interface... but that occurs 1/10th or less as often as it does when I'm using Windows.
I won't be buying a Pre because the iPhone serves my needs best as a tool. The press that indicated the Pre is a make or break product for Palm doesn't encourage me to jump on that bandwagon... over time the investment in a device grows and switching becomes more difficult. No chance I'm doing that for a product that as yet has not saved the company.
Sorry, but as a user of both platforms, I felt the need to set a newbie and ignorant user straight.
I too work in both platforms. On the apple side, a new capability addition results in twice as many software packages being added as Windows and it takes twice as long because Apple doesn't play well with intranet resources. Our Apple techs have also uttered the phrase "you can't do that" as often as the IT folks have said about Windows "but you already can do that, here is the path".
The world has changed. The worst thing about Windows is the stygma from the 80's and early 90's.
It doesn't matter too much to me at this point. I stopped being very interested about this when the last time I synced with Itunes, the sync ate all the mp3 songs I had purchased from Amazon. They just disappeared from my phone and Itunes too. I was super PO'd and concluded that Itunes sync simply could no longer be trusted. I wasn't going to sync again and lose songs I bought. Doubletwist, here I come.
It is so frustrating to see Palm giving so much attention to this Itunes sync thing when there are so many more important issues that need to be addressed. OpenGL anyone?
This is a real non-issue for me. I have no desire to sync with iTunes. So I agree with those that would rather Palm stop wasting limited resources on the issue. Sure, it keeps them in the tech headlines, but it's not doing much of anything to make the Pre a better phone.
I wonder how good palm did on the itunes masking if it will be more of a pain in the ass to change it to remove the pre from synching.
Dood! Palm..give it up, stop leeching off other Vendor ID's.
This I-sync news has spread like a California wildfire all over the web news forums. Easy advertising I guess.
I think after reading all the comments this morning, the gentleman,"Submitted by jbrandonf on Sat" makes the best comments.I totally agree.I have a Pre for 2 weeks now,i love it and i am getting rid of my Iphone 3G.
This news just made my morning!!!!
Question: Is Palm taking a chance that they will be sued? And if they are sued, won't that take a toll on their cash reserves?
Rob
Apple stepped on a few patents when releasing iphone, so either party filing suit is an express ticket to both companies being embroiled in a "divorce-like" litigation trap that will move their cash to their counsel.
If Palm decided to read the editorial and take it to heart, we wouldn't have the I-Tunes sync. I feel it's a GREAT FEATURE (and THANKS PALM!) in the phone that makes it possible for people like me, who use an Ipod for working out and the Pre for everything else, to continue using one program for my music. It's not a fight without praise.
My *OFFICIAL* response:
I could care less for iTunes. Nice slap-in-the-face by Palm--basically telling Apple to take your USB protocol and stuff it. Yet, the are too many tools out there to sync media for this game to really matter.
reminds me of gaim and aol back in the day....
I care about the iTunes issue, and I think Palm is in the right. Apple dominates the music industry with the iTunes software and someone has to challenge them. It's the same thing with Microsoft... Linux anyone?
meh. Call me when I can sync with Zune. Otherwise, I don't really care.
I care only in that it's pointing out the lengths that Apple will go to to try to remain being a black box.
All the comments have been focused on how Palm is wasting resources fixing this, but don't you think that *Apple* is spending 10X as much money trying to block it?
Even if you only factor in the bandwitdh costs alone (iTunes had 200M users 4 years ago, what must that number be up to at this point, vs 800K Pre users), this has to be a huge waste of money for Apple.
What's in this for Apple at this point? They're being made to look like the bad guy for blocking it, they're raising anti-trust talk online, they're driving people to using other products, and it's costing them money to do all of that.
If Apple embraced this, instead of fighting it, at least they'd have the potential to pick up impulse sales in their music store.
What I find interesting is how the discussion is now shifting from Apple is all evil and wrong for blocking Pre sync, to encouraging Palm to concentrate on other issues with the Pre and leaving the sync thing alone. This issue has certainly raised the ire of quite a few in this chat, with many labeling Apple as the bad guy and Palm as the underdog. Although it's clear that Palm is in the wrong, many of you are willing to look past it. Choosing to abandon your good judgement just to fuel a face off with the big, bad rotten Apple. Like watching gladiators kill each other for your amusement. While many of you favor this, in the long run it's only going to hurt Palm and the Pre when cool heads prevail.
It's no longer going to be Apple is the bad guy, but why doesn't Palm treat their customers better by providing the needed software. It's as simple as that! Apple is doing phenomenal and their customer service is second to none. And this fact alone is why many of your complaints about iTunes and the iPhone just doesn't add up. If their customers service was bad then you'd have a valid argument. Palm should consider this and do the right thing.
I don't even use this feature but its pretty cool and funny.
I don't think Palm is in the wrong. iTunes is a music store, moreso than a standalone program.
People use it to buy music among other things, and shouldn't be locked into a particular player.
The music isn't DRM'd to iTunes, or iPods, and I don't think Apple has made it perfectly clear, as in, bold lettering in red when you download that this only works with Apple devices.
My guess is eventually Apple will be challenged in court for anti-trust.
Personally, I always used Amazon for my music, so I was happy the Pre came with it natively. I never used iTunes. I used Real Jukebox till it became "Real Player" which was the death of that. Then I found WinAmp.
I also don't understand why Apple is limiting it's functionality. Read my first paragraph...iTunes is a music store. Selling music and other things is how it makes money. It would seem that increasing compatible products would increase sales.
There is no doubt in my mind Apple is the worlds smallest would be monopoly.
I just never updated past 8.1 I only use iTunes for podcast downloads
What irony!
When the iPod first came out, everyone was bitching at Apple that they HAD to use iTunes with their iPods and why did apple FORCE THEM TO USE ITUNES?????
Senuti, anyone?
Now everyone wants iTunes.
If this were a network thing instead of a USB device thing, Palm would be arrested. They're spoofing, plain and simple.
A Pre isn't an iPod and Apple is not its manufacturer.
All iTunes content is there in neatly organized folders on a user's hard disk and all the metadata for music is stored in industry-standard ID3 tags.
Why doesn't Palm write its own Sync software that loads music from folders off of a hard disk?
Apple has certainly provided APIs to access the AddressBook and iCal and everything else.
Is Palm admitting that it can't write Mac software?
The USB Manufacturer codes are in place for a reason and companies, as far as I know, sign an agreement as to their use when they sign on to use USB in their products.
Palm is violating that.
There's always senuti. Wasn't that open source?
Isn't Open Source the savior and Apple Software from the devil anyway?
I don't know if everyone signed up to be "everyone". I think it's a very vocal minority that want itunes synch as it appears to be some sort of their personal identity or an actual lifestyle.
I think:
Palm has overstepped their common law rights.
Apple is nuts for closing out potential customers to their store.
Apple is nuts for putting up the roadblock that creates animosity about a company known for trying to simplify our lives for a better world.
Apple is nuts for prompting people to check out alternatives which will eventually challenge their "virtual monopoly"
Palm is nuts for wasting resources (ever so small) when the rest of the phone lacks so many Treo 650 basic capabilities.
Wouldn't the world be a better place if there was an Itunes app in the store, with both companies splitting a nominal $5 fee to run itunes with sanction on both sides? Nah, that's too easy.
way to go palm
i hope they keep messing with apple
Using this as a basis is awesome fodder for trolling. Personally, I've knocked around on TUAW
As long as it is legally safe for Palm to keep this up, i'm not at all angry at them for it. As a matter of fact, I admire them. They're showing one hell of a lot of dedication to us by sitting there actively spitting in their greatest competition's face. If Palm wants to send us love notes, i'm not against it. I guess I can't speak for everybody, but at the very least, I love you too, Palm. ^.^
Never cared. I like reading about the drama, but iTunes is poop.
I cannot believe how people are bitching about how Apple are the bad guys in this situation, nor the apparent total lack of comprehension over the entire issue.
Here's the bottom line for those too stupid to understand:
Palm are illegally using Apple's USB vendor ID to pass off the Pre as an Apple device. The USB-IF has already censured Palm for such behaviour.
Apple have a public API and copious documentation freely available for those companies wishing to write their own sync applications - RIM already have such an app available.
Apple's API allows exactly the same functionality to be applied to any third party device as enjoyed by any iPod, provided you can get off your fat arse and write the program.
Palm are too lazy/stupid/idiotic/incompetent to write their own sync application which, potentially can do everything that Apple are already doing to sync data between devices.
Ergo, all you Pre owners bitching about Apple restricting access to your device are talking from where the sun rarely illuminates. Those people who believe that Palm are in the right over this matter display an IQ level that would embarrass a rock.
The Pre had the potential to step up to the same level as the iPhone: instead, it's a pitiful also-ran let down by poor hardware quality control and software designed by committee. Laugh all you like but the iPhone has created ripples in the industry that will be felt for decades to come. Ed Colligan and Steve Ballmer are no doubt regretting their disparaging comments vis-à-vis the iPhone. I bet they're not laughing now!
And who could forget Palm investor Roger McNamee's hysterically delusional claim that, "You know the beautiful thing: June 29, 2009, is the two- year anniversary of the first shipment of the iPhone. Not one of those people will still be using an iPhone a month later." Oh, and with a 293% Y-O-Y loss, Palm must be crapping their pants.
Those familiar with English history will remember the tale of Cnut (and no, that's not a typo) and his attempt to hold back the sea by sitting on his throne by the seashore and demanding the tide recede on command. Of course, Cnut was trying to illustrate the futility of such action to the English nobility. Perhaps Palm would do well to dig him up from his resting place in Winchester and employ him as a consultant.
As an iPhone user I am in strong favor of all competition that contribute to prevent Apple from going complacent. As a Palm user since the Palm Pilot over 10 years ago I am delighted that Palm has entered the playing field with such a great and beautiful machine.
But: Why should I get a device made by someone who cannot even make a syncing application of their own?
Come on Palm, write an app yourself that syncs my iTunes library with a Pre! It's pitiful what is going on right now.
@Cerealklr
The Pre fails or succeeds on it's own merits now. Not because of anything Apple did or does.
So, when Apple files and wins a lawsuit, you will all be whining that Apple is Anti Competitive. And the only one's that will care will be you.
The saying , any PR is good PR for Palm has been used up. They just look like silly little script kiddies now. And you guys are happy about it.
Make sure you teach your kids it's OK to take things that don't be long to them.
You know, like Palm!
Make sure you teach your kids it's OK to shoplift because the store has more than you.
You know, like Palm!
And be sure to tell your kids how much you admire them for stealing.
Be carefull when trying to spit in your competitors face. Especially when the wind is blowing into yours.
jobs admits that apple grew from stealing ideas from others, and is proud of it. i almost cried when i watched the 1983 apple keynote and saw the company apple used to be. it's amazing how 25 years of capitalism can change a company. it's also amazing how going from the small guy to the bully changes a company, too.
apple knows that itunes syncing makes it easier to coax iphoners into moving seamlessly into the pre.
Jobs never admitted to STEALING anything. What Apple did do was take existing technology and make it better. The perfect example is the iPod and iTunes.
Exactly what has 25 years of capitalism done to Apple.
Apple is bad why?
Because they are successful. Because hundreds of millions buy and use their products. Because they defend their intellectual property?
Are they bullying Palm? Palm is stealing. But that's OK huh?
Because the hundreds of millions of customers made Apple a success, now they magically turn into a bully? Because of success? You have a strange view of the world.
Next time someone breaks into your house and steals your stuff, be content that they probably did it because you are more successful then they are. Then you have no reason to call the police... Because it's OK. Just like Palm.
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