On Monday, eWeek’s Darryl Taft posted a story (“Why Some Developers Think the Palm Pre Could Upstage the iPhone”) that was full of promise and hope, while splashing on some cold water of reality. It’s a lengthy piece (nearly 2000 words) that weaves its way around why developers will love the Pre. In it are quotes from three companies who have a track record as developers for Palm, impressions from a newbie, Genuitec, a company that provides Eclipse-based productivity tool-suites, and thoughts from an analyst at CCS Insight.
Things that stuck out in the story include:
webOS presents fewer challenges because… there are "no funky subsets of Java to use [Java ME or Android's Java SE minus random stuff] or native languages [Objective-C and XCode for iPhone or C++ for Symbian]. What millions of developers need to know, they already know: HTML5/CSS3/JavaScript. All standardized and ready to go,” said Genuitec’s Williams.
webOS presents more challenges because… you don’t have a wealth of tried-and-true expertise to consult, for one," said Handmark’s vice president of marketing Evan Conway. "But in many ways, it is exactly those constraints that make the end result all the more fulfilling.
Enterprise too… There were several mentions of how well webOS and the Pre would play in the enterprise. Pivotal Labs’ vice president of technology, Ian McFarland said he believes the Pre can become the next great enterprise-class device. "I think it's a great fit for that space," he said.
"Palm already has some penetration in that area. And the Pre delivers an easy tool set to develop against. If you're developing for an enterprise and you're taking Web services back ends and tying them to AJAX [Asynchronous JavaScript and X M L] front ends, you can take exactly the same skill set and build applications for this platform. It's going to be a really good fit for custom apps for the enterprise, and for Web app developers in particular to do custom apps."
Maybe Netbooks? McFarland also noted that webOS could eventually run on netbooks, “there's nothing that would preclude it from doing that. …It should be fully portable."
Can it hold developers’ interest? The analyst, John Jackson, vice president of research at CCS Insight (http://www.ccsinsight.com/who/) noted how Apple “does this magnificently by wrapping the platform in a commercial juggernaut that gives developers a clear path to revenue and massive transaction volume assurance.”
“So for Palm and all other aspiring competitors, cool and cutting edge only get you so far. You need to create revenue for both developers and the channel—in this case, Sprint. That’s a function of unit volumes and transaction volumes [application usage]."
Pre is to Sprint like Google G1 is to T-Mobile… It’s the tail end of the story that is triggering a lot of discussion on our forums, where Jackson compares the sales profile at Sprint with that of the G1 at T-Mobile.
This eWeek story presents a lot of good points. Check it out and join in the discussion at the forum.
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Comments
So basically its kick ass... cool!
What I don't get is why they aren't making this compatible with the Sprint Music. It is nice that it has a keyboard, but I could learn to use the "keyboard" on an iphone. Why wouldn't you want to provide music? That seems stupid on Palm and Sprint's part. Yet another thing to keep people with the iphone.
amazon music store?
what would be cool is if we had a release date.
Enough with the bitching about the release date.
It'll be out by the end of June, any earlier is a bonus.
if they just gave us a date we would have nothing to bitch about..
Oh, we'd find something.
While that's great and all that developers are excited, I think if Palm is going to attract more developers, they're going to have to move a lot of devices.
Developers love the iPhone platform in part because it has so many devices. Locked to Sprint, the Pre faces that as one potential battle.
The other is that while I would argue the Pre does many things just as well if not better than the iPhone (although not all), I'm not convinces average Joe knows about the phone. Yes yes, everybody online is excited but will this phone have traction with average consumers?
I think if it is going to attract significant numbers of developers, Palm needs to really move some devices.
Furthermore, let's see what Palm has for media management and playback. Joe average likes his media playback and so far I haven't seen anything close on the Pre. Calendar integration is great for us geeks and business people, but that won't move devices.
Woops, repeated myself with moving devices way too many times, my bad...
this is great news!!!I am going to do any more posts until it is released. i can't stand the pressure.
Anyone remember the old term "Installed Base?" Right now, Windows Mobile and Apple iPhone have the installed base for smartphones. IMO: Bringing a new smartphone to market without at least two on the following is a mistake: A strong company (eg: Apple), a strong OS (eg: WinMo), or a strong carrier (eg: AT&T or Verizon). Limiting a new release to only CDMA without a really strong carrier like Verizon is really a mistake. Bringing it out in unlocked GSM could front end load some cash and give the Pre a global presence right out of the gate. I'm hoping the Pre can rescue Palm, simply because I really like their equipment and have a still do own a bunch of it.
PalmStore ought to develop a rule: no charging for the soon-to-be developed fart apps. "All our farts are free." It's too much, whatever people are paying for this stuff.
not every web developer is also a javascript developer. most web applications are not developed in javascript. that's normally just a small part for the browser -- that is often generated from the framework, the developer is using. so the argument, that there are millions of javascript developers is just wrong. beside this, I do not think that scripting languages are ideal to develop a serious application.
> not every web developer is also a javascript developer
True
> most web applications are not developed in javascript.
> that's normally just a small part for the browser -- that
> is often generated from the framework, the developer is
> using
False. Most "web sites" are not developed in JavaScript. Serious web applications in this current time tend to be Ajax/RIA based. A great many of them make heavy use of JavaScript.
> beside this, I do not think that scripting languages are
> ideal to develop a serious application.
False. Perhaps they are not ideal to develop an intense "game", but I'll let people decide for themselves if games are serious applications.
I rolled off of a project just over a year ago where we built a video and photo asset management system for a global news network. The system interacted with HD Cameras and managed clips, videos and still shots (complete with the ability to select sections of a clip and combine them into a video). The entire front end was done in JavaScript. I built two additional web applications for this company all 100% pure JavaScript/HTML/CSS for the UI hitting web services in the back end.
There are, in fact, millions of us. Your statement "was" true before Ajax became mainstream. Thanks to applications like Google Maps and GMail that provided some of the earliest examples of the power of Ajax, Ajax has moved to the front when it comes to web applications and RIA. There are tons of frameworks out there for JavaScript including Ext, Dojo, jQuery and Prototype (Prototype by the way is packaged with Mojo).
The fact is JavaScript used to be a second class citizen of the web. This was still the case when Web2.0 became the standard. It is no longer the case now that Ajax and RIA are at the forefront of web application development.
I am more of a Java service (WS/REST) developer, but I have extensive experience with Ajax/RIA.
"There are, in fact, millions of us. Your statement "was" true before Ajax became mainstream. Thanks to applications like Google Maps and GMail that provided some of the earliest examples of the power of Ajax, Ajax has moved to the front when it comes to web applications and RIA. There are tons of frameworks out there for JavaScript including Ext, Dojo, jQuery and Prototype (Prototype by the way is packaged with Mojo)."
sure, ajax needs javascript, but this does not mean, that one hast to write javascript oneself. that's why I noticed "frameworks". one can write AJAX RIA that requires not handwritten javascript at all. even google, that you mentioned in your post, is using their own java framework, that produces javascript, so that you don't have to handwrite it -- see: http://code.google.com/webtoolkit/
"sure, ajax needs javascript, but this does not mean, that one hast to write javascript oneself. that's why I noticed "frameworks". one can write AJAX RIA that requires not handwritten javascript at all. even google, that you mentioned in your post, is using their own java framework, that produces javascript, so that you don't have to handwrite it -- see: http://code.google.com/webtoolkit/"
Yes, GWT is cool for some things. But it is in no way "the majority". Also, I didn't mention Google (the company) specifically, I referenced two of their apps. These apps were written before Google brought out GWT. Guess what they were written in. :-)
What you are saying is like suggesting that because there are Java code generating IDE's out there, that the vast majority of Java developers don't write Java by hand.
My only point is that JavaScript has come a very long way from being the "glue-code" that you seem to think it still is.
Your quote: "...that's normally just a small part for the browser -- that is often generated from the framework, the developer is using"
This is simply no longer the case. Despite the cross browser issues and missing constructs, companies are spending MILLIONS on JavaScript development.
Here is a search result from dice.com for jobs with JavaScript somewhere in the description. http://seeker.dice.com/jobsearch/servlet/JobSearch?registerRemSw=0&SAVES...
Over 3500 results. A similar search for GWT only returns about 70 results by the way. I'm just saying.
'Your quote: "...that's normally just a small part for the browser -- that is often generated from the framework, the developer is using"
This is simply no longer the case.'
I still think, that javascript is just a small part of a whole web application compared with the business logic behind that works on the server. I did not mean, that it is useless to know javascript. but I voted against the notion, that every web developer is also a competent javascript developer. I wrote some ajax applications, too, and usually I have not written very much javascript by hand.
> that javascript is just a small part of a whole web
> application compared with the business logic behind that
> works on the server.
Agreed; though your initial comment stated that JS was a small part of the "browser" (which I understood to mean small part of a webapp's UI). I do agree that AJAX/RIA is not the entire picture when we are talking about the "whole web application."
This model can hold true for the Prē as well. Of the two apps that I'm currently designing for the Prē, one does all the heavy lifting via web services, so the code on the Prē will be just for user interaction (and taking advantage of some of the services offered by the device. The second app won't have a server component.
> I voted against the notion, that every web developer is
> also a competent javascript developer.
I agreed with this in your initial post and still do.
> I wrote some ajax applications, too, and usually I have not
> written very much javascript by hand.
I hear ya.
'Agreed; though your initial comment stated that JS was a small part of the "browser" (which I understood to mean small part of a webapp's UI). I do agree that AJAX/RIA is not the entire picture when we are talking about the "whole web application."'
I did not write that JS is only a small part "of" the browser, but only a small part "for" the browser. with this I meant, that the browser part -- including the JS -- is just one part of the application. if you are thinking in MVC terms e.g. it represents the "V". all the rest is normally not written in JS, but in another language. if my difference between "of" and "for" does not make any sense at all, it will probably have to do with my limited english language skills, as english is not me first language. :)
No problem. I simply misunderstood you.
Do note however, that with many AJAX apps, the VC can (and often do) exist in the browser while the M is on the server. Often times, the C is split between the two. It all depends on the app in question.
'This model can hold true for the Prē as well. Of the two apps that I'm currently designing for the Prē, one does all the heavy lifting via web services, so the code on the Prē will be just for user interaction (and taking advantage of some of the services offered by the device. The second app won't have a server component.'
sounds interesting. whats with your second app -- don't you have a problem, that you have to deliver the source code for the program to work on the pre? I mean, not everybody is an open source developer.
Valid concern.
I don't have an answer for you since I don't have all the information yet. I know you must have your app signed in order to have it install in the device, but I don't know if Palm does anything with the source during install. I know in a normal browser, you'd always have access to the source for JS-based UIs, but I just don't know what is offered by Palm for this.
The question was posed to Palm via one of the blogs (I think it was one of their facebook talks or something).
Update: Found the quote. Here is what Palm had to say about that.
Well, we're pretty concerned about it, we're still looking at it. I don't think we've got any concrete advice to offer yet. I think when the time the SDK comes out we'll be advising developers around that. I think, quite honestly, the community is a bit split. Web content has been fairly exposed [...] some of the people who are providing web content and web services have found ways to protect their applications on the server side. Now, for embedded developers and people who are really purely on the client, that's a lot more of a challenge. I'm not really able to here today say "do this or do that" but we'll have some guidance for people as we come out with the SDK.
It is a big concern of ours and we want to do the best thing for the developer and for the user.
Article at http://www.prethinking.com/home/2009/2/26/webos-background-apps-and-sour...
thanks for your answer!
For the interested:
TIOBE has JavaScript ranked at #8 it has been increasing in popularity steadily since 2005 (not surprising since AJAX was coined around the same time): http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html
JavaScript misunderstood: http://javascript.crockford.com/popular.html
Hey Taharka,
Do you have an account over on the forum? If so, what's ur username?
I wanted to ask you a few questions about Javascript and Web development.
Thanks.
@philips,
I'll get back to you. System says my email addr is in use, but says it is unrecognized when I request my password. I'll probably create a new account.
@philips,
I'm connected now. Look me up (taharka).
Taharka, thanks.
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