Welcome to Round Table, which in fact is not a table at all. It’s a new series here at PreCentral and here’s how it works: we pose a question to our writing staff and they answer. The question could be something simple like “what’s your favorite webOS app?” or something a bit more complicated, like “what do you want from the next Palm device?” In fact, we’ll go with that one for this first time around the table. We’ll also branch out from the PreCentral realm and grab somebody else from the Smartphone Experts empire to throw in their two cents.
So here goes, after the break, What do you want from the next Palm device?
Derek: I’d like a follow-up to the Pre, a Pre II if you will. I really like the compact slider design, but it needs some work. For one, a tougher shell and sturdier build quality, which probably means doing away with the curved slider. Honestly, I’m fine with that. And without the curve, the phone could also be thinner - the Motorola Droid has proven that a QWERTY slider phone can indeed be iPhone thin. Inside, more memory. At least 16 GB, though I wouldn’t be upset if you offer me a 32 GB option. And do something about that high-gloss finish, will ya?
Dieter: I definitely think Palm needs to take advantage of webOS’s ability to scale to multiple screen resolutions, which is a roundabout way of saying I’d love to see more pixels. Palm has already established that they can make a small device, now it’s time to prove that they can make a multimedia beast that can stand toe-to-toe with the Droid. I want something definitively high-end. Cute, pocketable: done. Now I want Palm to give us something with a beastly big screen and speed to match.
Keith: You can’t go wrong with the candy-bar Pixi style, it’s worked for Blackberry for years for a reason. It’s business oriented in terms of firing off an email without the hassle of moving parts. What you can go wrong with is the Pixi specs... so I’d love to see the Pixi form factor with the Pre specs tweaked. First, Palm might want to look at an OLED screen. This should be a flag-ship device that deserves top notch screen quality, blacks are BLACK and colors are crisp with OLED (think notification area being completely black around the SMS icon and up top at the time, you know you want). You also don’t take that hit on battery life that you get with the current screens because they are lower power consumption. You most certainly don’t get that bad press over the “oreo effect” that can occur; even better you can’t get mistaken for being a “cheese slicer”. I wouldn’t care about 80 less pixels if it meant vertical and instant keyboard. Secondary to the screen is removable media! Using my Hero with a microSD card and the ability to back up to the card has been a sorely missed feature; I feel safer knowing that an on-the-road device wipe is a restore away. Just two simple upgrades that make it worthy of calling it the Pre 2.
Robert: I’d say their next device needs to be another flagship-tier one: bigger screen, bigger keyboard, more memory, all running an OS that’s been further refined in terms of both memory management and speed. A device that nicely rounds out the “family” of webOS products by being as big a slab of a phone as it needs to be. I think what we'll actually see, though, is an iterative upgrade of the Pre, maintaining the form factor and upgrading the innards: processor, RAM, storage memory, camera sensor, similar to the iPhone’s yearly updates.
Rene Ritchie, Editor, The iPhone Blog: Palm has now released the vertical sliding Pre and the candybar Pixi. I say they skip the horizontal slider and the flip and pull the trigger on the slab. That’s right, call me a mindless Apple fanboy if you must, but the era of physical keyboards is diminishing (the kids aren't dependent on them the way the old folks are). Give me a great webOS mini-tablet with a glass 480p screen, solid build quality, and let the - frankly spectacular - software do the talking. Oh, and GSM in North America would be nifty, thanks.
And that’s what we think. Now there are two more steps: (1) we want to know what you think (the comments await), and (2) we’d like to hear about what questions you would post - send your suggestion for a Round Table question to roundtable@precentral.net.
Comments
OLED! 480P! Woohoo! First post!
The next palm device will be the current palm device. The current pre has so much untapped potential. A graphics chip sitting completely dormant. The inability of apps to use the microphone. The inability to record video.
Undoubtedly the next big thing from palm will be a giant back of tricks unleashed on the current hardware, along with a speed bumped & size bumped model and/or GSM.
GO Preo! Marginally bigger screen. Back to a better keyboard. 3x battery. Faster processor, more ram. SD please. Treo strength radios. A slightly streamlined Treo 7xx. About the same height/width, but a little thinner and lighter.
BB went big with Bold/Tour, there is clearly a market for people that need power and don't worry about fitting the device in their purse. Keep three platforms, Pixi for simple, Pre for compact power, and Preo for business users that need the future of the Pre, with the capability of the Treo.
No lie! This phone hardware is fantabulous (see the iPhone 3GS and the Droid) but the Pre's got one hand tied behind its back!
Get off your duff and start taking advantage of the Pre's GPU! Offload some GUI tasks (animations and the like) to the GPU and the interface will become silky, buttery smoothness. Sure, it won't benefit the Pixie but face it, that's your "entry level" model, no one expects it to be as spiffy as evidenced by the missing WiFi.
I know GPUs are pretty powerful these days, maybe that can provide the horsepower needed for smooth video recording too.
Face it, the Pre's platform is more than sufficient for new devices over the next 12-18 months *IF* you actually use all the features. (BT keyboard? Hello? Your device supports physical and virtual keyboards, is a BT interface really that hard?)
Oh, and if you do release a Pre v.2 with more memory, be sure to source the 1400MaH batteries at the least. Smartphones are power hungry things, I'm not dinging you for that, but for the love of cheese, let's cram as many Watt-hours into the form factor as we can, okay?
This Rene person does not nknow what they are talking bout. vertual keyboards suck!! horizontal keyboard are awesome!! end of story
You're all wrong :-)
Well, not entirely - you agree that the next Palm device has to be a Tier-1, business class flagship. But you're wrong on how to do it:
- give it a faster processor, much more memory (removable), and - here it comes - let it support Bluetooth mice and keyboards, and have a connector (dongle if necessary) to drive an external monitor. Voila! A tiny, pocketable laptop substitute. Most hotels can supply an LCD screen, and if this catches on, will also stock BT mice and keyboards for business travellers.
I know it'll be bigger; I'm OK with that. I know it'll be heavier to have any kind of decent battery life, I'm OK with that too (hell, I've been dragging my 700P around for years)
What about a new version of the Foleo?
A webOS version.
just my 2 cents. ;-)
I honestly reckon they should go there, but I think they need to nail this end of town first.
I agree with Rene. We have a slider and a candybar model, so lets go with the one thing we are missing, a slab. Beef up internal storage to 16GB and 32GB and/or throw in removable media. One last thing, add video capture to the device. I mean, come on, what phone doesn't have video capture these days??? I would also add a magnetometer to compete feature for feautre with the iPhone and other Android phones that also have and utilize this hardware (maps and GPS apps that use the magentometer are very cool!).
I'm with both of you. But i think Palm needs to leap more than simply 16 or 32..go to 64gb. High rez screen is a must.
Like i said before, best hardware possible (within reason) can make growing with an OS much much easier.
Oh mighty round table of blind Kabukis, head over to your forum and read! You will find your answer there, and if you look hard enough, the meaning of life I tell you..
Bigger screen, if not, at least OLED. I disagree with Rene Ritchie's idea of getting rid of the physical keyboard. I think that makes the phone/Palm standout amongst all the other iWannaBe's. Definitely keep the physical keyboard, but make it fit more smoothly. I don't personally like the Pixi form factor, but then again some people do. I agree with Dieter, the "cute and pocketable" device has been accomplished, quite well. It's time to move on to something a bit more powerful. Sacrifice the form factor for a mini-SD slot (I don't think that's much of a sacrifice, I think it's more of a software thing). I personally believe Palm didn't want to implement removable media into the software, so they went the route of no expansion slot. It may come into play with later devices as the OS evolves a bit more.
In summary: bigger/better screen, ramp up the hardware (more memory/stronger processor), expansion slot, RFID chip... maybe?
I like to see another flagship device, now that webOS has matured. A larger and more solid Pre. Slightly bigger screen and keyboard. Video recording a must! Faster processor a must to avoid multi-tasking sluggishness! I wouldn't mind paying more ($299) for a full featured more solid, more memory Pre 2, at all.
I definitely can agree with some of the opinions above (except for doing away with the keyboard)... Now adding a virtual keyboard wouldn't be bad, but the physical keyboard is a plus... What is most agreeable is making the Pre bigger in terms of screen size and providing the capability to add more memory.
I completely agree with MOST of the above. I disagree with Rene about doing away with the physical keyboard. I'm 23 and don't consider myself an "old folk" by any means, but I DO NOT like virtual keyboards, at all. There's just something about them that feels unreliable.
Just my two cents.
Easy, the only thing that almost prevented me from getting my pre was the portrait keyboard instead of a landscape one. I just want a landscape keyboard. You can make a bigger keyboard without making the phone bigger. (I like the smaller phone size but do get "screen envy" around my friends with iphones.)
Some other things that would be nice would be a second rear facing camera for self portraits and maybe video chatting one day. Moving the speaker to the front would be good. I flip mine over to listen to music but need to flip it back around around for speaker phone. Another thing I ofter wish for is that the button on the front was a roller or trak-ball for on screen navigation. I'm thinking about how difficult it will be to navitage a spreadsheat once documents to go comes along. an alternative would be to put arrow keys and a tab key on the larger landscapte keyboard.
Landscape keyboard has always been janky. On every device. Period. Yes, this includes the Droid.
It was a brick, but the Helio Ocean did the landscape keyboard pretty well.
That's a pretty definitive statement. There have been plenty of landscape keyboards that have worked quite well. HTC has had a hanfull of smartphones with landscape keyboards that worked perfectly. Now, other vendors like Samsung are also putting out landscape keyboards phones. I would much prefer a landscape keyboard to the crampped portrait keyboard.
Really? My HTC Mogul and Touch Pro, while running the mediocre Windows Mobile 6 had the best keyboards of any phones I've owned. They were roomy and the sliders never wore out the way the Pre's seems wont to do.
One number and one letter: 4G. Take advantage of Sprint's multi billion dollar investment. Faster processor. More memory. And HD with an optional output cable to HDTV's and monitors (a la Zune HD, but better, because it's from Palm).
A lil larger screen would be nice and a 1GHz processor! With the accelerometer being as quick as it is, i don't think i'd mind having a horizontal keyboard, allowing the screen and phone to be a little larger, but not a pain with a vertical sliding KB...
Lets get NVIDIA's Tegra 650 on this badboy! THEN we will see WebOS TAKE OVER
In addition to obvious more memory and bug fixes, what I want to see in the next device is the same basic form factor as the Pre but with a larger screen, preferably OLED. A larger screen (3.5 inch is enough) will also provide extra space in the slider for a slightly larger keyboard. While I don't share Rene's option that physical keyboards are dead (just ask Blackberry's growing user base) smaller ones like the one we have on the Pre should be ;) Software wise I'd like to see integrated contacts, ala SenseUI, and if that's not possible, then at a bare minimum a favorites screen in the phone app. Last but certainly not least - better build quality, better build quality, and better build quality...
Almost forgot...snapdragon please :)
Forgive me for not referencing my coment properly, but I recall someone big at Palm saying all webOS devices will have keyboards. My opinion is that only when the screen is able to physically deform itself will dedicated keyboards go the way of the dodo.
Landscape slider with an HD screen and specs to match will be next.
After they perfect these form factors (another round or two) they MAY do a brick, but I think they'll do something like a software version of the Foleo, allowing us to operate the phone from a desktop or laptop's web browser.
Treo with webOS.
Pre?
Pre has the professional impact of a disposable razor. Need a Pre on steroids. Hours of battery life, a keyboard that flies, something more than the minimal memory capacity, much stronger radios, better phone interface. Preo!
I'd pay big money for a device that ran cleaner than the Pre, let me thumb type comfortably, could really hold and play media and let me run unteathered (or stoned) all day without nervously watching the battery meter.
Pre is nice, but the overall power seems to be too proportional to its form factor size.
Exactly, I couldnt agree more. I love my Pre, but I feel the Treo went more head to head with Blackberry as a business device. Can't totally say the same thing about my Pre, even though I love it. Give me the Pre's software in a Treo form factor, with a slightly more upgraded interface... and you got urself one hell of a device.
I'd like to see a horizontal sliding keyboard, more internal memory, and a SDHC or MicroSDHC slot.
Likes to see on the next Pre:
1. MORE MEMORY! 32GB is stupid easy and cheap now.
2. VOICE COMMAND! Im just not seeing this on the current pre ever but common!!
3. OLED display would be nice and easier on the battery.
4. Faster CPU to like 800mhz. Apparently the OS needs a little more hardware overall than thought.
I know ditching a physical keyboard is the easiest way to make a smaller phone but please dont!!! I agree with Deiter that Palm now needs to show that WebOS can produce a powerhouse device too to show its versatility and prowess. This market cares more about firepower than flare.
I agree please do NOT remove the physical keyboard. The keyboard is a deal breaker for me. That is the number one reason I went with a Pre instead of an iPhone.
I also want to add the video and audio outputs. I want to completely replace my iPod and that's all I need in addition to more drive space. 64GB would be great.
I also want the capability to record phone calls. Is that a hardware issue?
What do we need to get rid of the ....too many cards open....notice. I want to have so much
memory, that I can open 30 cards at once.
Well the sluggishness is moreso the fact that the GPU isn't being used at all. They just hired a guy that should help remedy that soon, and we should see a huge performance boost. Voice command, definitely.... especially after seeing the voice-controlled navigation searches on the DROID, that was too ill.
MOST important thing I want is a landscape QWERTY, and make it bigger. I'd definitely love a bigger screen, and I want more space for my keys. the small keyboard isn't horrible (to me) but it could be better, and erybody can agree with that.
Oh, and SOMEBODYYYY out there figure out some new battery TECH! Please.... the future of mobile devices depend on it....
where the heck did my post go? It was the second one posted..
A little more detail regarding my first post (and these are just my opinion/wish-list):
Palm could work on a new flagship device. I believe the form factor of the Pre is perfect. This time get rid of the curvature of the slide. It does not work. An AMOLED display is a must, especially due to the fact that it will benefit battery life. Make the device bigger, start off with a screen that has 480P resolution with a 16:9 ratio, maybe 3.3 or 3.4 inches; this in turn will give us more width for the qwerty keyboard (and a larger battery).
The processor is just fine, we're not taking full advantage of it, hopefully with the new hire from AMD/ATI, we'll make good use of the GPU. More memory/expandable memory goes without saying. USB 3.0 would be impressive if possible. More physical buttons (e.g. camera), a better charging port door/cover, and a higher resolution camera with vid. Some in previous posts have mentioned magnetometer and RFID chips, those couldn't hurt.
Finally, WebOS; I'm sure updates will come along, but I'm waiting for most of the tweaks available via WebOS Quick Install to make it to an official update. Also, more bluetooth profiles, better PIM functionality (it's suppose to be a Palm), voice dial/commands (with a physical button), better camera software, and desktop synchro included with the package. Seriously, how about more API's? Optimization, Optimization, Optimization. I'm willing to pay $250 post rebate.
Just my three cents.
a larger screen , 3.0 plus inch with a full qwerty candybar with 1 GHz processor will sure kill BB , before snatching the sales from Android.
How would a 3.0" screen be bigger then the Pre has now with its 3.1" screen?
better build
a glass screen
more memory
video recording
Palm needs to do whatever it takes to grab the business crowd away from Blackberry. A good, easy to use keyboard. Master the Exchange support. Get a real package together that supports viewing Office 2007 documents (at minimum Excel and Word). Ditch whichever costly features (camera?) to make it a true competitor with Blackberry in the business world.
A business phone would open Palm up to revenue for attachments, such as the bluetooth Keyboard and Mouse mentioned above, charging dock, etc.
Make it a phone that top level executives will want, and that cater to their daily demands (exchange support, beefed up calendar/meeting tools, Active Directory sync, etc.).
Add WiFi security options. Make it easy to select 'trusted' signals only, so you don't wander into a Starbucks and connect unsecurely.
Oh, and make it 4G.
Palm needs to identify something that it does in the mobile space better than anyone else and then go with that, whatever it is. They are a niche player and can not afford to support 3 or 4 different types of hardware. Android is going to do that. They aren't going to have the most/best apps or games. iPhone OS will always have that. Multitasking? Please. That's a switch that can easily be turned on by any other platform. Synergy and cards are really just software enhancements. Keyboard? Perhaps, but we've got more Android keyboards coming. They were not able to make the OS simpler to use because you have to hack the crap out of it to enable standard features. Great hardware design? Not quite.
So, Palm, what can and do you do better than any other mobile device platform in 2010 and beyond? So far, I can only identify two things: 1) Be Palm - Leverage the brand identity of Palm; 2) Offer lower cost plans via Sprint.
For me personal:
I'd wished an upgraded Palm Pre.
1) Hardware
Keep the basic shape and form factor, but allow a slight increase in form factor (ev a bit thicker and a bit taller).
In there put:
- OLED display (+contrast, +battery life,-thickness)
[nice-to-have]
- larger capacity battery (about double or more)
[must]
- removable memory (eg. mini- or micro-SD)
[must]
Make it much more robust. (Like my old Nokias: I dropped them so many times, even to concrete or alike. Some scratches, but no damage to case or phone!)
[must]
2) Software
Get the PIM sorted out!!!!!
Hello Palm, did you hear me?
Get multi categories/tags for contacts (!), tasks (!), memos, calender items.
Get additional sync possibilities. (Eg included standard SyncML à-la funambol, with user configuration.) So I could for example sync PIM with my ISP, hosting the horde Groupware (for free). (So keeping the control over where my data go. So the SMB / entrepreneur user has some options.)
[absolute must]
SUMMARY:
It is a work tool for me.
Solid PIM and solid case.
That would do it for now, for my new personal device.
Greetings,
Rolf
I think once the Pre 2 comes out, technology will be much more advanced.
They'll be able to make the Pre2 slimmer with the same form factor and a bigger screen. The OLED Display sounds good.
Removable memory and around 1500 mAH battery sounds good.
I hated the banana look before, but now I consider that as a Pre thing... so I think they should keep it for the originality.
I like being able to say "my spartphone looks much different from other smartphones".
But overall...
-WebOS with video recording and much more functionality.
-Bigger OLED display
-No hardware screwups please. Hardware and virtual keyboard wanted.
-Keep gestures!
-I wouldn't mind a wider phone (for a bigger screen).
-1500 mAH battery (can last a whole day with heavy usage)
The Pre has changed my opinion on slider phones all together. I love the TS and how smooth my lil Pre is, but I also like the fact that I have a full qwerty keyboard to go right behind the screen. The only problem I have is that tiny thing we call the oreo effect. Time to get rid of it by losing the arch and going with the some sturdy rails. Better yet, go the way of the Droid. A phone I am dying to see post-release day. Everything changes after the phones release.
The Pre Deuce needs to be at least 3.5" and I think they should go with the horizontal slide for the keyboard. The Droid looks great, but I love WebOS. It's so smooth and fun to use. AndroidOS just seems so plain to me, except for SenseUI, but then there is the lag issue. ANYWAYS.
IMO, make the Pre Deuce bigger, with a glass display equal to that of the iPhone. Bring in a solid soft touch keyboard to go with the hard keyboard (i know resources, but why NOT have it as well), keep the qwerty keys (they're like lil bubbles of fun). To be honest, I am almost ready to move on past the hard keyboard, so if Palm does make a Pre Deuce slab, then I am off to upgrade! I could care less for a memory upgrade, 8gb is more than enough for my needs, but an optional microSD card couldn't be too hard to add if you lose the qwerty keyboard and create the slab.
The Pre "was" an iphone killer until we all felt the cheap build and the battery issues. Make it bigger, lose the arch, give me glass and firm build, bigger phone means bigger battery space. Don't let WebOS die because you can't build a device worthy of holding this great OS!
Just don't let them call it "The Pre Deuce"...
I can see the headlines now if they screw something up on the new model...
PALM DROPS A BIG DEUCE ON MARKET.
Uggh.
Wish 1: Slab phone, no physical keyboard. (I agree with Richie.)
Even if that doesn't happen, how about a better place for the battery charger port? It's really inconvenient to use on the side... makes it tough to have in car, use while charging, etc. Should been on the bottom and, at the very least, make the audi port on the same side as the charger port.
I could not disagree more.
Physical Keyboard is a must. It is a must. I couldn't stress it enough.
Why don't you like the charger? I charge it in the car all the time and it's extremely
convenient. The charger port where it is allows me to drive with the phone on my lap
and have the cord to the right of it. If the cord was in another place the phone would be turning and not be right side up. It's in a perfect place.
But I must go back to the Physical Keyboard. I bought an iPhone and returned it after 20 days because....Hey no keyboard. And iPhones has the best virtual keyboard out there. It's doesn't beat a physical keyboard. I can drive and with one hand, open the phone and text a message without even taking my eyes off the road because I can feel the keys I'm typing.
And if I decide to type with both hands and use my eyes, I can type much faster than I could ever on the iPhone.
I agree with both charging port location and keyboard necessity.
Hey no offense man. I understand your disagreement. I'm not suggesting Palm move away from keyboards, but I'm answering what I personally would like in another device. Sometimes I love the slider, other times it's an nuisance and an extra step. I think the form factor of the pixi takes care of a lot of that, too. Ideally, I guess I'd rather have the option of a native digital keyboard onscreen (in the meantime, love my patch) in addition to the slider.
Bottom line, I guess it's smart to have multiple devices in the line-up for different tastes... some with the keyboard some without. Peace.
And nah, hate the location of the charger. For my daily use it's in an inconvenient place. But that's just me.
(And don't text and drive.)
If the professional market really wanted a virtual keyboard, the Storm would not be the sales shame of the Blackberry family. Tactile keyboards have been the backbone of every professional grade device.
1. OLED screen (3.5 sounds right)
2. horizontal layout
3. 16 gb internal with micro sd slot
4. top of the line processor
You get a bigger phone that has more room for a larger battery, more efficient screen technology, and better keyboard = better battery life and overall experience.
By upgrading the processor it will make the OS snappier without any optimization needed and we can then wait for the OS efficiency increases as they come.
Id pay 400 with a 100 MIR :-)
You are aware this processor is the same as the Droid, and on par with the iPhone.
The limitation is the OS is in 1.2.1, and the graphics chip in the processor is doing nothing (as in it's not even active).
I'd worry less about the hardware, and actually keep cost down going with the same processor while putting more money into the OS developement and getting that graphics chip working.
It's not just for games, I would assume the processor would see less stress in videos, and even web page rendering.
Basically squeeze everything out of this hardware while reducing overhead cost, and then reinvesting the profits in more devices and more R&D.
THIS!
I have an interesting thought, but I have not really convinced myself it would be a good idea.
What if the Pre II has the same form factor, but not a slider. What it means is that Pre will have a lot of rooms for:
* More storage memory
* A SD card slot
* Bigger battery, maybe a factory 2600 mAh battery
* Require virtual keyboard support, meaning with an OS update, Pre would also have it.
* More RAM, means more cards can be opened at the same time
* Metal volume, sound switch, and power buttons.
* Much stronger build
Assuming we get the app limit fix and video recording from software updates, my priority is RAM (not storage). I love the form factor and the multitasking, but want to run more web pages while multitasking. OLED would be nice.
A higher priority than microSDHC, in terms of the software and handling of file locking currently making removable storage impossible on this platform, is to be able to take a call while synchronizing music and photos. As SirataXero said, I think the reason we have no microSD is more of a software limitation, despite Palm's explanation.
who cares...everyone is getting on the adroid kick within a year
Always funny when the "adroid" fanboys can't even spell Android. Really on top of their game.
a more costomizable user experience (let me 'tweak' w/o preware), a landscape keyboard, a homescreen that could reorient to landscape, 32 gigs, faster processor, a digital compass, and a more complete development SDK, and I think i'd be satisfied.
Rene's the thinking one here:
don't duplicate what you've already done. But Palm needs to be making MORE THAN one next phone at a time. And they should license webos so they can get more phones out and not have to worry about build quality.
slab, virtual keyboard only.
5-8 megapixel camera, better flash
64GB memory (or have an SD slot)
Battery life 1 1/2 day significant use minimum.
photo editor
video recording, video editing
voice memos
voice dial
visual voicemail
customizable notifications, ringtones, alerts, alarms
snycable memos, tasks
outlook sync
text forwarding
no plastic flaps. no flaps at all
desktop cradle
Fix it's apps: Media Player, Calender.
Make a concerted effort to fix the myriad of small things that plague webOS
Make it's own desktop sync solution with podcast support, Amazon support.
Do whatever it takes to have real iphone caliber games.
Make their adds not suck.
Simultaneously release on multiple carriers in U.S., Europe, China
Again they should be building more then one device and licensing web os.
Who will they license it to? Android is free.
people license windows. i'd bet people would pay for an iphone os license. Sure free is an incentive but it's not the only one.
Why do people not want the physical keyboard? In that case, let's go back the stylus of the old Palm OS.
Nothing beats a real keyboard. NOTHING. It has to have a physical keyboard, that is NOT NEGOTIABLE.
Because people are trying to get customer's they don't already have Not trying to get more the same pre users, the same palm centro people. And though i like a physical keyboard, iphone has shown you can have a massively profitable phone without a real keyboard. And again they already have a phone with a keyboard. They can make another version of the pre. Even blackberry is offering a keyboardless phone, as does htc, samsung, motorola.
The point is to get new users not get the same old ones. And when the biggest selling smart phone has NO keyboard the world is telling you that a physical keyboard is expendable.
Stylus, nobody say anything about clinging to old tech and mind you a physical keyboard is old tech. You're way off base.
Sorry it's clearly negotiable.
I agree, I have enough "hand goo" on my screen without it being a keyboard. Why give up valuable scren space to create a keyboard when Palm keyboards are so great?
You realize you just wrote the requirements for a decent PC don't you? We have to be realistic, we can cram a Cray Supercomputer into a candybar sized device (yet ;-).
Not at all. if I had described a decent PC i would written:
Quad core processor
one terabyte internal storage, not 64 GBs
4 Gigabytes of memory
Half way decent video card with ddr3 memory.
i'd have only required 4 hours of of use
A web cam and NOT an 8 megapixel camera, etc.
and look at the new Sony Xperia X10. it has a lot of these features including an 8.1 camera http://www.engadget.com/2009/11/03/sony-ericsson-lets-xperia-x10-video-a...
And, assuming they are starting on the phone now it won't be out until next year therefore, the next phone doesn't have to measure up to what's coming out now it has to measure up to what will be being released in say May. So the specs need to be better to impress not the same.
I'm totally with you blackmagic01! Palms next device should draw customers that their current products do not. The Pre has a slider keyboard, the Pixie has a fixed keyboard. The only options left are a slab or a landscape keyboard design. Then you have a product protfolio that will draw customers of all prefrences. Why not have a product launch with two of three form factors, all sporting the same internal hardware but with different mechanical designs???
If you really want to take over the market you have to get off a single carrier as well. Sell you device(s) through all service providers. Get those Palm shares back up where they belong!
yep. like i said its "next" device. it doesn't have to replace a palm pre with a physical keyboard. do it all.
I agree with everyone except Rene's ideas combined for a beefier Pre II. My thought is to build it Pixi style with less emphasis on making it svelte.
Make the Pixi a little thicker. Thick enough to allow something like a 2000 mAh battery! Then use the extra empty space (as seen in extended panels for the Pre) to extend the hardware to Pre-like and better specs. Without the slider mechanism, there should be plenty of room.
All the butter of the Pixi form factor with all the power of the Pre, plus an ass kicking battery. I could even deal with the smaller display if I also got the extra power and maybe more memory or an microSD slot.
Incidentally, so long as they go with inductive charging, I don't see them offering any sort of solid metallic casing. Perhaps the teflon-like stuff on the first Hero?
All in all, if the Pixi's the webOS Centro, then this would be the webOS Treo Pro. The Pre Pro?
When Rene Ritchie, Editor,of The iPhone Blog said, "Give me a great webOS mini-tablet with a glass 480p screen, solid build quality, and let the - frankly spectacular - software do the talking." I think that's a good Idea, it would probably be a good Mac or PC alternative, because i almost use my Pre for everything now, from work to play, my computer is just my gaming machine now.
i will never buy a OSKB only phone.
Rene is definitely an Apple fanboy. As cramped as the Pre KB is,I can type faster on it and more effeciently than any OSK I have used.
Kids don't buy $200 smart phones, they by texting phones for $49.99, and those all still have KBs for the most part, actually they have really good widely spaced, and well designed KBs with horizontal sliders.
I would like to see a Pre PRO. With a candybar (pixi/treo) style layout. Big screen (SAME SIZE as the Pre), better KB, I think the KB can actually be the same size, but without the depressed layout and edges it should feel bigger.
I would also not mind a horizontal slider and/or a second Pre (II) with a slightly bigger KB and more robust build.
Make it 5mm wider space the keys a little more and give them more relief.
BTW, the KB on the pre is better if you make the back of the KB thicker. IE put a hard case on it, or add an extended battery.
SO DO NOT MAKE THE PRE II KB EVEN THINNER IT WILL BE HARDER TO TYPE ON. Then again, make it thinner, and my extended battery pack will not seem as thick, so maybe make it thinner afterall.
Finally, a breath of fresh air. KUDOS to you Pico.
A physical keyboard is a must and Palm should not move away from it.
i disagree, me and a lot of my friends have bought our own new phones.
I got the pre (3rd in line day one, 5am, my buddy the iphone, and my sister got the HTC hero last weekend.
We need full implementation of HTML 5 incorporated into the webOS SDK. Also we need some deeper low level access on the device, if not then some lower level API to interface with the hardware. Once this is done lets move onto the hardware.
(Yes I need full canvas tag support! Darn)
Maybe a 840 X 400 WVGA AMOLED screen, and a TI OMAP 4 when it drops. Everything should be supplied nicely with that. I would still prefer the vertical slider.
Here's a REALLY radical idea.. How about a device that doesn't turn itself into a BRICK when you download what it thinks are too many apps.. even though you have PLENTY of memory on board. Gee I wonder how many geniuses at Palm it will take to come up with that novel concept.
It doesn't really matter what they do with the hardware next... If they don't listen to their users and return the speed and functionality to the camera that we were used to with Palm OS since circa 1997, then I won't be using their OS.
I'd really like to give them a chance and see what they do in the timeframe it will take them to get the next models out, but I'm going to take a close look at the calendar built in to Android 2 next week, and if it is faster than WebOS's calendar, I'm gone.
I would echo Derek, plus add bigger battery and a SD slot. The beauty of WebOS is that there is enough to satisfy the geek user and at the same time not intimidate the casual user. Now if Palm will build a true Flagship piece of hardware the rumors of their demise would truly be premature.
-Speaker-independent voice-dial that can be initiated from a Bluetooth headset (will buy one as soon as this happens)
-Horizontal and more solid feeling sliding keyboard
-SDHC or MicroSDHC slot
-Improved reliability and stability
-Vastly improved PIM
Wow – hold the horses! I think we should fix the current device call Pre before we go on to next device since I am 100% sure I have to pay for that device too. So let’s get the Pre to a level where just the more basic stuff for a high level smartphone is working – thanks!
I'm a student. I have a laptop on me at all times. I don't need a mini-laptop in my phone/media player. And when I'm out at, oh, I don't know, a dinner/gathering, I need something they can fit on my person or in a bag without me worrying about it. So I'd nix the idea of a tablet unless it's in conjuction with a vastly superior upgrade of the current Pre model (especially one without a keyboard...greasy, pizza fingerprints and screen real estate wasted/resized/moved by the keyboard popping up and having to thus, constantly scroll). You can make it about as big as the iPhone and that's it. I agree on getting rid of the curve and the plastic. I find that the curve makes one handed typing a pain, especially if you'e stuck a case on it.
Most importantly, better memory management and more memory. The Pre's memory management is so poor I can't believe it was given the go ahead and for something that claims to multitask, it is incredibly sluggish. Google Maps is a joke. You walk a block and you have to wait 90 seconds for the map to reload. They could improve the media aspects as well. The iPhone has the edge because it had the iPod to build off of, but if the Pre is going to be in the same category, they have to catch up. The Pre is a snail as a media player, scrolling lags (both on this and Remix) and their documentation/playlist/sync support is laughable. And the speed is a problem that I have with only the media player and one of two other apps open. I can't even keep the Web app open in conjunction with anything else, let alone have more than one Web card at a time. Google Reader is hilariously rendered useless. If they can't fix WebOS, then Palm really needs to step up the processor and specs to make the phone more fluid.
hey hey hey, lol The *supposed* GPU driver coming will fix the sluggishness. The OS needs to be optimized some more, like CPU scaling, and the GPU needs to be actually, USED!
I want to see a solid body with glass and metal, a bigger screen, and physical keyboard.
Take the treo pro case ditch tyhe hardware keyboard make the screen larger down to the top of the bottom row of keys ( caps 0 anspace alt and up) keep the 3.5 jack and youd have a 3.5 to 3.6 " screen with onscreen keyboard give it 32 GB or user memory and webos ext monitor and keyboard capable.
oh yeah cdma and gsm versions released simultaneously or with cdma and gsm radios enabled. Choose your own nettwork
I for one would like to see Palm lead instead of follow. For years there has been talk of an itablet, yet one hasnt materialized. Netbooks are under-powered to be really reuseful. So why not give us something that is large enough to replace a laptop/desktop for an extended period of time, with enough processing power to pull it off, and with a battery that doesnt leave me nervous that I wont make it through the day. While your at it make sure that it has 4G, not just WiMax but LTE, 3G,WiFi. I want to have access to data the way I want it. We shouldnt expect a better iteration of a current device, rather something that is cutting edge, and redefines the segment. Palm is more than capable of producing the WOW factor.
Call me simple but I would like text forwarding. Along with some security for little things like locking my pictures or locking my text messages. Anytime you let anyone hold your phone to make a call...after they are finish that is the first thing they go for! So really I just want a lock to have a dedicated lock for things in my phone. But these are things all my OLDER phones where able to do. Why my high-end phone doesn't have that IDK....But that’s what I would like to see in the next Palm device.
I like to see a a big screen AMOLED
horizontal keyboard
fast processor
micro sd card slot
GLASS SCREAN
candy bar shape
thin
round edges
Hardware:
3.5"-4.5" HD Screen
Glass Screen
OLED screen
Tegra or Sanpdragon
More RAM
Slightly larger keyboard either in portrait or landscape
Overall better build quality
microSD slot(Would be fine with less memory in lieu of the microSD card slot but make sure the internal memory is enough to withstand 2-3years of updates unlike Android which some phones may not be able to get past 1.6 let alone 2.0)
If no microSD slot then higher memory(Preferably 32gb and 64gb)
Higher megapixel camera(At least 5 megapixels) and HD video
Longer life battery
CDMA world phone capabilities
Full GPS(So when you drop coverage you can still use GPS)
Software:
More native support for the SDK so developers can create richer apps/3d games.
Video recording(Which the current Pre better get)
Virtual keyboard(Portrait and landscape mode)
Ability to sync with Facebook and Google accounts without having to sync all contacts.
Google maps navigation :)
Software tweaks to bring in some basic features(i.e. custom notifications, voice calling, etc.)
Overall performance tweaks(Which have happened)
I'd like to see Palm master the wrist phone...I've always hated actually carrying my phone in my pocket, or in a holster...I like to wear watches, I use my phone as a watch (YES, getting it out of the holster every time to see what time it is). Something revolutionary in terms of wrist watch usage...not a lot of ideas really. The device would have to be on the same (if not better) level as the pre, with all of the same options...and hey, why not a removable micro SD...so a permanent hard drive is not necessary. Bluetooth devices for querty keyboard texting, stereo music and phone calls, HD camera and video? I might be dreaming...but I'd buy it. Maybe even have an interchangeable case for different outfits...whatchya think?! :)
please ignore this comment.
true comment below
I have it on good authority the next Palm device is going to be an updated Pre. Betcha ten bucks!
It took me a while to feel comfortable with the Palm Pre coming from a Blackberry but now I like it and do not want radical changes. I would take a slightly bigger screen and keyboard but do not want a horizontal keyboard. Vertical is better. I like the curve because it feels more like a phone than a piece of rectangular plastic however the oreo effect has got to go. I also want bluetooth support for my keyboard, slightly faster speed and, of course, far better battery life.
note: there's no requirement that the next device REPLACE the Pre or even be an improved version of the Pre. The discussion is only "next" palm phone.
A lot of people have some great ideas for a New Palm phone but I really really wish that they would get on it and start upgrading the things that need to be upgraded on the current Pre. I love the Software upgrades every month or so but the upgrades haven't really brought us the stuff that we need or require. Like Video recording c'mon... Every phone i've ever had has had video recording and this phone is capable of doing it very well, and there is a GPU sitting in there taking up space, do something with it PLEASE! Visual Vocemail!! Voice memo's why can I not simply record a voice memo that's basic. I'm starting to feel kind of silly buying a phone that doesn't have these basic features. I mean I'm the guy that's pushing the Pre on everyone I meet but i'm starting to feel goofy when I have to explain that it doesn't have Video recording. Please Palm... Upgrade the big stuff that everyone WANTS!!!!! PLEASE!!! Make me proud of my new phone again!!!!
Exactly!
one more addition
autocorrect dictionary. editable.
Make it go as dark as the iPod Touch does. And light the keyboard easily on the low screen light. Trying to look at it in bed is like looking into a spot light. I turn my backlight above 0% maybe 5% of the time.
I'm a huge fan of the current Pre form-factor; when I switched, I swore I'd never go back to a landscape KB. I'd mostly vote for a slightly larger form, in order to get a bigger screen and kb, and to fit a larger battery.
the pre needs stronger hardware and a upgrade in the OS:
upgrades should include video recording,virtual keyboard, removable memory, text forwarding, basically just add more customizing but keep the OS clean like it is already
The Pre is only let down by its build quality and storage so lets have a Palm Premium:
Solid Build quality made from a aluminium or tungsten frame and made to last plastics because in this current mobile phone climate we need our phones to last up to 24 months.
More Memory. It would be nice to have an SD card slot but lets face it, if apple won't give you one then Palm won't. So 64 Gig storage.
Then concentrate on fulfilling WebOS's strengths.
Rather than a faster processor lets have a hardware limit indicator. Does anyone remember the software tools that Sony released for the playstation 1? which gave developers hints and tips of how to really push the hardware. It truly set the playstation games apart from anything else and lets face it WebOS is in it's infancy and we are no where near it really flying so let the developers have the tools to achieve this.
WebOS is the platform and the true strength that causes people to give it the time off day so improve it or loose it.
If all that happens is we push for faster phones then only some of the WebOS users will be happy meaning a smaller amount of people will be singing the praises of Palm. If all the phones get improved through software improvements then every single Palm user will Palm owner will be looking down on iPhone users and beyond as if they are simple amoeba organisms which ultimately is my goal. I can't speak for anyone else of course.
Kind of agree on build quality. But I'm wondering if they can't use metallic materials because of the Touchstone. Teflon maybe? Or graphite?
Sounds Just the ticket. I'm surprised an independent company hasn't tried to offer a "Pimp my pre" service that scoops out the pre internals and beds them into a premo bling body.
No diamonds though... Yak!
Well, I have an iPhone and an HTC Touch Pro. So what I like is either the slab-style or a vertical slider. higher resolution screen, MORE SPEED and damn it, put in a better autofocus camera. the integrated one really sucks when coming to taking pictures from serial numbers.
The OS needs more APIs so that there can be released more apps. I miss the great apps from my iPhone and YES I also miss the games, like galcon, Civ Revolution, Tap Defense or Fieldrunners and so on...
Hardware
1. cortex a9 processor nvidia gpu
2. increased ram
3. 32 gb internal storage
4. expandable memory
5. 3.5 oled display
6. 1600 mah battery
7. fm transmitter
8. blackberry style keys- i dont think the current ones are
9. bad at all but blackberry is better Curve 8330
10. front facing camera/ rear facing camera 8 mega pixel make the camera software better whitebalance editing stuff like that
11. try to incorporate good feel in the hand like our current pre
12. track ball along side somewhere with keyboard
better quality speaker
13. obviously better quality outer hardware include some metal and harder plastic
14. 4g radio
not sure whether or not to have side or vertical keyboard there are pros and cons to both
keep gestures
15. solar panel back battery cover
Software
make it over all faster
virtual keyboard
use the gpu
video recording you tube upload
support all instant messaging
paltalk would be cool too
flash
opengl webgl
make it last as an mp3 player
maybe something like mp3 mode and video where phone conserves power.
do it yourself app maker
desktop software to customize webos, add widgets, sync all information,add apps, add music, enough with itunes crap also implement amazon download to software.
gaming capabilities
improve email
task memos
and all that stuff lol
i know its alot but the competition is just too much palm needs an edge.
you can sell crap on a stick as long as you have great advertising if the pre is not selling as hoped its due to advertising nothing else. Pre is a capable phone, but nobody knows enough about it. palms comercials are just plan sad. Like a video editing gone bad.
This one is simple. The next Palm device should be built by someone other than palm.
Dear Palm,
Do *not* listen to those who wish for landscape or touchscreen-only keyboards. Touchscreen is not nearly as usable and landscape requires two handed use. Although the portrait keyboard lacks size, I have found it hardly makes any difference on typing speed or accuracy
*Do* offer an expandable memory slot. My music collection is between 10-15GB. It should fit in its entirety on my pre. It is a big pain removing and adding songs as I want them, especially when so many devices exist that would eliminate this issue. Another reason is many laptops/PC's have card readers built in and transferring pictures, etc is so much nicer this way and does not require the lugging along of a micro USB cable.
*Do* Improve the battery. I know this is difficult with size constraints. I also know that the Pre is not alone in it's battery life issues. But, it is the number one complaint that I have heard so any improvement here is much welcome.
*Do* make necessary software improvements such as Video Recording, Social Networking, and my personal pet peeve (exceedingly annoys the crap out of me actually), make it so Gmail doesn't sync every freaking e-mail address that I have ever sent to! Nothing like having dozens of worthless Craigslist e-mail addy's in my address book! Ugh!
I personally don't care that much if you go OLED or even if the screen size goes larger. I think the current screen is beautiful and big enough. I also like the form factor, it fits in my pocket better than any phone i have ever had, it's thickness is just right, and the construction feels relatively solid.
I like the idea of bluetooth mouse and keyboard support. That would definately eliminate the need for me to lug around a laptop for several trips. Video out would be cool too, but not nearly as bluetooth input devices would be.
So anyway, thanks for the great phone and I look forward to the next edition.
Your Friend,
-Al
I like the Pre design. Here's what I'd like to see in a Pre 2:
-Make it a bigger. Bigger screen = Bigger keyboard
-Faster processor
-Get rid of the button on the front (I never use it anyway) & give me a speaker in the front so when I'm watching video the sound is coming towards me instead of backwards.
-I don't understand what's wrong w/ the SDK that's slowing down the graphics in games, but that needs to change (I want a Need 4 Speed type driving game!)
-I don't actually care much about storage size so whatever's cometetive will be fine.
-I like others' ideas about expanded bluetooth connectivity to make it more of a portable workstation
Nice, I'll second all of that!
This is a wish list right?
I want to see:
-OLED 3.5" Screen and bigger keyboard!
-Metal Casing.
-Video Capture.
-4G.
-MicroSD.
-150 Micron Filter over the Speaker! (To keep out metal filings).
-NO Mobile Web!!!
-Better CPU and USE the GPU!
What I'd like to see:
-Trackball.
-Nightvision.
-Fuel Cell.
-And a TRUE Virtual Keyboard. One of those Laser keyboards that project onto the table in front of you. The ones seen on Beyond Tomorrow. Which are actually out now. This would truly separate it from other Smart Phones.
#1. VOICE DIAL - VOICE DIAL - VOICE DIAL!!!
w/ advanced features - no voice training, control media player, flight mode, spoken # and name dialing, etc., etc.
2. Faster processor (example: similar to 1Ghz Snapdragon or faster), faster graphics and more internal memory
3. Expandable Memory/Storage - support for 64GB+(mini/micro SD)
4. HD Video Recording w/ Stereo Sound and Output (also need auto focus, flash, etc.)
5. OLED/AMOLED High Res Screen w/ less glare
6. Keep the physical keyboard and maybe even go landscape
7. GPS with better signal lock/caching for when off network, etc.
8. Last; but not least - Give it a REAL Battery for cyrin' out loud!
Oh, and We Want it no later than April 1st, 2010! :P
Seriously, though, bring on some REAL and Game Changing updates Palm. :-)
How can we make a make your own theme application?
Palm should be an innovator and not a copycat. I would prefer an almost endless data capacity with the option of media storage. The size of the palm pre is nice. It feels nice in my hands and to carry which is one of the things I look for in a phone. Video would be nice, is it possible for 3D?. I also would like the option to backup my own data. I would like to see a tablet the same size the electronic readers are with the same capacity to read ebooks and sync with my phone and I could play games, write letters and interact with apps, download ebooks and such. . I would also like to see my phone able to scan so I can scan prices before I take them to the counter. I like the keyboard. What about a built in webcam. video phone.
I think this is a simple one. Make a device that is made for surfing the web. With flash support and everything necessary to surf the web, the phone is the new internet. The pre is good for surfing the web, but it could be great. Portrait design and keyboard is a must, but a little wider would be good. Hey, try putting a trackball under the keyboard.
-Glass, OLED and 3.5" screen
-Definitely better casing
-At least 16GB on-board storage WITH micro sd slot
-Better battery
-Video recording
-Picture and video editing software
-More camera settings (ie...white balance, stronger flash, auto focus (focus points even..hehe), ISO settings up to 800 at least) - A few years ago, any old camera would've sufficed, but I take enough pictures now to know that I want something more. Once the phone cams reach 10MP with ISO up to 1600 and auto focus, I might just dump my DSLR.
Defintely full flash support, camcorder capability, optional camera options like zoom, stabilization, auto focus. I would like the ability to play high graphics games, free sync software simliar to the Palm Treo. Email-to-text option and vice versa. Visual voicemail. More memory 8 gb is not enough. I prefer this as updates to the current Palm Pre not putting these capabilites into a new Pre (Pre 2). Why?? Advertiser's get consumers to buy a phone- its like they purposely leave out capabilites instead of giving you the best quality phones then six months after the cell phone company get you to sign a new two year contract a so- called UPDATED or II version is released-its unfair!! Just give us updates not version number 2!!!
this is my idea.
palm pixi form factor, no keyboard, BIG screen, thicker, for screen and updated components.
ALSO they NEED to utilize the GPU in the current pre! My BIGGEST complaint about the pre, is in the lack of app availabilty. I know, its a new phone, still beta appstore, big developers arent sure if they want to invest in it yet, but honestly? when the SDK has so few API's and doesnt really allow developers deep access into the phone, no killer apps are going to come our way! get to it palm. You have to fix what you have before you release a new product, or consumers may be weary. (see WINDOWS VISTA)
a device can be too small and thin (see latest ipod shuffle)
The benefit of keeping the casing look of the pixi, is that this looks identifiable, it doesnt look like any candybar touchscreen ive seen, especially in the rounded top and bottom
(this is the palm pixi, with photoshopped screen, no special info here :/)
I argee with u just had a KB. Here is my rendering..
http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pixi/208584-palm-please-put-out-phone-...
Well, let me first say what I don't want to see Palm to do :
To lose its IDENTITY. So whatever Palm should produce should be identifiable as a Palm device. So it should be identifiable in it's form, design, ease of use etc., etc. So I DON'T want Palm to produce another BIG GENERIC LOOKING GLASS SLAB form factor (like Moto dRoid, or upcoming Sony's Xperia X3, or even anything like Moto Cliq, or HTC Hero, or whatever). Even if Palm decides to make one for those who want to use such MACHINES because of their testosterone generated masculine urge to show off (even though I wonder whether all of them have the requisite NO, the nitric-oxide ;-)), Palm should make sure that no one has to hold that big hunka-clunka glass slab has to be hold to one's ear, and Palm should not call such device a phone. Make it such than one can use it as a phone only with a ear-plug, or head-set. And then give them whatever they want, even perhaps VOIP feature.
Now what I want. Make a Pre2 just like a Pre-form-factor, with improved everything (whatever necessary hardware/software improvement is required). May be Palm can make it very sturdy with rugged plastic and rubberised materials, or can use some brushed metals.
Ideally I want Palm to go back to Treo line, like Treo 650 form factor WITH A SIMILAR STUB LIKE ANTENNA ! Do away with the buttons and D-pad and make that a gesture area. There is enough space to increase the screen size. Make the keyboard ideal. Whichever Treo had/has the best keypads, use it. Another version can be made using all virtual onscreen keyboard. Then even with a Treo-650 form factor one would have a very big screen. For the rest of the phone give what people want. Don't ever make the Pixi mistake, i.e. no Wifi.
And just remember "DEVICES THAT ARE BIGGER THAN THE PALM OF A HAND IS NOT A PALM PHONE". :-)
give me snapdragon...16gigs and expandable heptic feedback..come on where are my instinct fans at...visual voicemail...native not app catalog....build onto the current os...unleash the power the pre already has...i can do without the keyboard as long as you give me a nice size screen 3.7 or higher...video recording...and full on accelerometer I mean build in through every nookand cranny so no matter whats upon my phone whether it be the home screen or a app I turn my phone and the screen turns with it....I hate the iphone but love the app store...and its apps I like what apples doing with the mobile gaming and what not...palm will get there with the time that apples had to develop there but palm dosnt have the time to so they need to do it like now...build build build...virtual keyboard landscape or vertical must be buetiful i mean responsive screen all that lol...I want more but can't think of it right now....
There is only one thing important to the next WebOS device T9 !!!
First and foremost - I work for Sprint. Not only do I hear pros/cons of this phone everyday from an average of 170-200 people a month, but I see a lot of things that push customers AWAY from the phone and towards phones like blackberry or Hero. So here's what would resolve that:
1. Customers ask for a larger screen all the time. They want something more form-factor style of the iPhone but with the features of WebOS. People walk in with GIANT iPhone screens with gorgeous full-screen apps.. its hard to compete with. If we had a device than ran WebOS on an iPhone or TouchHD sized screen, life would be a dream.. BUT - let's make it a wider, flatter version of what exists now with the gorgeous rounded corners and a landscape slideout qwerty. As thin as possible, but without a glass screen.
2. A larger keyboard is a must. Deterrant #2! (and a major one at that) is people are afraid of the small keyboard. Theyre turned off by the tiny keys and inability to see it. This limits the customer base to those with small fingers, those with patience, and those with good vision or glasses. For everything the Pre does to attract customers who fear the smartphone, it takes away when the keyboard is shown.
3. APPS - There arent enough, or interesting enough apps. If WebKit is the base framework for both iPhone and Pre, iPhone apps should run on the device. This would open a WORLD of help for those who come in asking for apps only the iPhone can handle.
ME: "This has apps.. look theres 250+ of them.. .. theres a calculator..."
THEM : *stares blankly*
ME : "...a Fandango app...an NFL app... oh look! Heres air hockey..."
THEM : "But the iPhone has the Sirius Radio App - does the Pre?"
ME: "Not....yet?"
THEM : "My son said to get an iPhone."
*door slam*
4. Landscape EVERYTHING. Turn the phone sideways, everything turns with it.
5. Video recording, editing, and the ability to play .mpg files and other formats streamed directly from web or email.
6. FLASH support in browser.
7. Visual voicemail.
8. The ability to charge on any MicroUSB charger, not just Palm configured. The Pre is limited on what chargers it accepts in Micro USB format. Some can be plugged in for up to 2 hours before the device recognizes it's being fed power and routes it to the battery.
Those are just a few...
I own a Pre, so please be kind. I love my phone - every WebOS QuickInstall inch of it!
Oh.. and before I forget - BETTER COMMERCIALS! Ones that show a side by side comparison of the Pre with iPhone on basic features. Similar to INSTINCT vs. IPHONE back in the SPH-M800 days!
the question is, whether this would be smart or not, as many of the basic features needs to be improved.
*Must I say 4G?!?!?!?!
*AMOLED 480p
*5 megapixel camera
*16GB
*On-screen keyboard along with the physical one.
*Palm messaging client like Blackberry Messenger.
*More efficient battery with much longer life.
*A landscape keyboard would be nice, but the thing is that would make the Pre look like every other phone. Palm needs to original, not like every other want to be iPhone phone.
*Very solid/sturdy/less incline to finger prints or scratches.
*Visual Voice mail
*Micro SD slot would be nice.
*Faster Processor
*Video Calling
*I like one guys idea of a Solar panel somewhere, not very noticeable like the proximity and motion sensors.
*Slightly bigger screen.
*PLEASE Keep the river stone form factor.
Specs the next device should have:
1GHz or higher CPU
512mb or more of RAM
Nvidia's Tegra 650 processor
800x480 screen
horizontal slideout keyboard with same layout as the HTC Touch Pro (which has a dedicated number row, as well as a "ctrl" button - enabling ctrl+c, ctrl+v, ctrl+x, ctrl+z, ctrl+s, etc.) we should no have to hold down a function key every time we want to type in a number - dedicated number rows and the ctrl button are a must!
These features should be standard, should have been for years!
How about the Treo650 keyboard? Palm keyboards keep getting worse and worse, from the gratuitous key placement changes in the 680 to the soggy keyboard in the cheap Centro, which apparently is also in the Pre.
How about getting back the functionality and ease of use from PalmOS in the Calendar and Memos applications?
How about getting back the search functionality from PalmOS that allowed us to search Calendar, Contacts, and Memos?
How about we just get back to 10 year old PalmOS functionality levels before even trying to be anything better???
How about something like a thinner version of the HTC Touch Pro II with an AMOLED screen. Also, I'd like the ability to swipe card view off to the side of the screen. Sometimes I want the clean look of no running apps, but I would still like to have those apps open, just not plastered on the screen.
I agree with Keith about the Pixi 2's need for upgrades - especially regarding the Micro SD slot and WiFi. Really, it's WiFi more than anything for me.
But I'd rather have a Pre 2 with the same/similar form factor of a vertical slider, but with a Treo 800w keyboard, no lip around the keyboard to hinder button pressing, no unstable wiggles in the slider mechanism [which is why I am even considering a Pixi], and no issues with screen cracks. That would be a phone I would easily pay $250 for.
One last suggestion would be to not hinder your next gen phone with exclusivity agreements; what Web OS lacks more than anything is third party applications, so the faster Palm gets a larger user base, the better it'll do in that area. No amount of money that Sprint or anyone else can offer for exclusivity is worth being left behind Android in terms of market share, and that window is closing quickly.
I'd love to buy a new Palm device with the following improvements to the Pre:
- better keyboard (Treo 800w is by far best keyboard ever IMHO)
- better battery life (why not place a couple of small solar receptors on the front top corners and/or the back similar to what's been on my Texas Instruments calculator since, oh, circa 1986??)
- microSD card
- increase the size of everything (device, screen, keyboard, buttons) by 15%
- ditch the glossy black finger printophile for matte finish
my personal opinion is this is my first slider phone and I hate the slider form. It does not compare to a full touchscreen, or blackberry/pixi candybar style either or even a flip fone in my suggestion. I love the webOS though and i wish the physical phone was as good as the system itself. I'll take palm over 'droid or iphone anyday but i want to see the physical phone style of like a touchpro 2 or jus do a normal full touch screen like iphone or htc hero. Just my 2 cents
Hawdware
1. 3.7 inch AMOLED screen, beautiful and power saving.
2. Vertical sliding QWERTY keyboard, no gummy keys compressed hard key with a definitive CLICK when you press them.
3. More memory options, 32gb Standard w/ SDHC slot.
4. FM Tuner/transmitter.
5. Video out w/ 3.5mm jack.
6. Glass screen, preferably made by Stantum(resistive pressure sensitive multi-touch) with oleophobic coating.
7. Retain rounded design but not the curved slider
8. Magnesium Alloy body with coating like the touchstone cover.
9. 3g w/ one of the schnazzy new quad/5 band 3G radios to make it a true world phone.
10. One of the schnazzy new mobile Wireless-N chips, again newer function less power.
11. Retain OMAP3 and PowerVR, runs fine once they get that graphics accelerator running.
Software:
More constant updates, in the time the Pre has been out we've seen Android go from 1.5 to 1.6 to 2.0 now which have all been decent upgrades with 2.0 being intense. Add easier ways to do things without having to use gestures, swipe to end programs is exciting the first few times, but I'd love to just tap a X. (unless this has changed, I haven't had my Pre for the last few months, damn friends keep using my stuff :( )
I think WebOS with a Treo form factor would be awesome. I don't want to have to use gestures for everything. The Treo was a huge success for a long time. The form was fast and at your fingertips. The fact that so many people have blackberries is proof that the form factor of a fast, tactile, and spacious keyboard with quick access buttons is still really effective and popular. The treo build was solid and felt great in the hand. I could pound out messages so fast. Please go back to better keys on the keyboard. I DO NOT want a touchscreen keyboard. I don't want a horizontal slider. The pixi form factor has some great elements: vertical, physical keyboard, but it's still entirely gesture based. I'm realizing the longer I have my pre the more I want the ease and speed of my treo--not OS speed but physical action speed. I don't want to slide anything. Perhaps the pixi form factor would be great, but the specs are keeping me from making that switch. The pixi appears to possibly be too thin--yes it is possible--for it to feel stable in my hand as I'm pounding out e-mails. The pre is not a one hand device, and I miss that terribly. I think it should be one handed based for keys and keyboard and do whatever you need to do with the screen and internal specs. I defer to greater experts on that, but it seems to me that 8 GB anymore is not enough for the direction people are heading with smartphone usage--especially with more people relying on them for their music library, video capturing, and photos. People don't want to carry multiple electronics anymore. they want their phone to do all that seperate devices used to do. Whether unreasonable or not, that is where the market has driven expectations.
All of that aside, given the need to build a family of products, I think Rene might be right with the need to do a really great and impressive slab device. The software is awesome and gorgeous, and I think it would look stunning on a slab and appeal to those iphoners who don't want AT&T, but developers need to be able to build for WebOS in such a way that quantity and quality appear impressive on the OS and devices.
That's not where I want things to go for my personal use. Beef up a PRE. Keep with the business usage form factors and one handed considerations. Pull from that strong business building background and core functionality while building devices that really show off the beautiful OS and capabilities.
Next devices out really will tell more of the story in the minds of those watching PALM. Building right device form factors in only part of the story. Keeping the OS updates and feature rich to satisfy a very demanding consumer and saturated marketplace is probably the greater challenge.
Two screens.
For example: two 1024x768 screens would have tenfold pixel count compared to the iPhone.
In addition to Pixi, Pre 2 is in the works. My guess is an incremental upgrade over the existing Pre available during 1Q or 2Q 2010. It would include a faster processor (perhaps dual core), more memory (base of 16 or 32GB), better radio (4G - either WiMAX or LTE), upgraded bluetooth (3.0) and Wi-Fi (802.11n) etc. I would be fine with that - throw in expandable storage (microSD - maybe even microSDXC) and you would have a worthy upgrade. I wish they would upgrade the volume, ringer switch and on/off buttons (which look and feel extremely cheap and detract from an otherwise excellent design). A keyboard with keys like previous Treos (prior to Treo Pro) would also increase the design quality, but also the expense. The bubble keys are ok but the previous keyboards were better by far.
I expect a few different other devices/form factors are possible:
1. Phone without a keyboard - yes, it would be an iPhone clone but with WebOS instead. Palm would get flack for releasing it but some people really don't care about a physical keyboard. RIM is known for keyboards and yet they have the Storm. This could position Palm to also have a...
2. Music Player. WebOS could easily be used as the base for a music player - this would also flesh out Palm/WebOS's multimedia apps. Think Zune HD/iPod Touch form factor - with lots of storage. Need extra storage for your Pre/Pixi? This could complement your existing phone and/or be the additional storage you need (plus it might auto register/sync with the Pre/Pixi). This could also double as a...
3. Game Machine. IPod Touch is selling lots of units - mostly for teenagers to play games. With Palm hiring graphics developers, a device next year in this space is possible. It could be combined with the music player (all touch interface) or be customized to have game specific controls (say, 5 way nav or trackball to aid gaming - think Zodiac reborn).
4. Foleo (with a new name). WebOS would easily work on a netbook and Foleo, though ridiculed, was slightly ahead of its time. Key interface design question - how do you scale up WebOS apps to such a large screen, though...?
5. MID - think Compal Tabasco style form factor (rumored last year). This could overlap with item #2 or #3 above.
6. eReader - the Barnes and Noble Nook has Android running on an eReader - why not WebOS? Palm has more clout to attack this space than some of the startups but would face competition from Sony and Apple (assuming the long rumored Tablet appears). Ironically, Palm sold their eReader software to Barnes & Noble a few years ago when Palm was strapped for cash - Palm was an innovator in the ebook space long before there was a Kindle.
I think the all touch screen phone is the most likely as the third phone in Palm's lineup with another device as listed above possible - it's going to depend on Palm's cash position and their desire to gamble.
Depending on Android's momentum in 2010, you could possibly see WebOS gain the ability to run Android apps (Android would run in a card just like Flash apps will soon) or you could see Palm become an Android licensee. In the Android licensee scenario, Palm would port Mojo to Android and give Android a WebOS style UI/gesture interface. Either option could keep Palm in the game if WebOS mindshare appears to be fading among developers or users - Palm could gain compatibility while still having a good deal of differentiation and some degree of control of their own platform.
Any way you slice it, it's pretty exciting. It all depends on whether Palm can continue to execute and if/how much they can increase their sales. Quite simply, more revenue means more possibility to invest in other devices.
Pre 2 (1 being the most wanted)
1. Stronger, more rugged build! (I'm afraid of everything I do with this phone).
2. Memory card expansion
3. Thinner
4. Speed
5. Sprint HTC Hero's scroll wheel!! (why have a limited functioning button on the Pre)
5. Snapdragon or better
6. Use more of the Pre screen real estate.
7. Touchstone car dock
8. Battery life increase
9. Less scratch-able screen!
10. Compass
The thing that blew me away when I first learnt about the Palm Pre, was the web oriented aspect of it and multi-tasking. That needs to be taken to the next level.
How about web based storage on the phone? A 1 terrabyte storage on a phone wouldn't be shocking then. A smart implementation could make accessing the web based storage usable. Can I say microSD sucks...
Ask anyone that has a T-Mo Sidekick what they think of web-based storage.
The Pre/WebOS uses some form of web based storage for its backup.
I understand how the perception could kill this idea.
Rene Ritchie - Although I understand your point of view I have to disagree with it. Physical Keyboards are still wanted. When you go the Route of NO keyboard ever you can be leaving out MANY people.
What about disabled people with tactile issue that need the feel of a real keyboard. My fiancee has MS and has issues that require her to have a real keyboard. She has tried on screen keyboard as a option but didn't suit her needs.
Allow me to introduce you to the next brilliant (hypothetical) creation from Palm: the Palm Proteus.
Proteus is a horizontal slider phone with a rugged physical slide-out keyboard. Indentations on the side of the device and a smooth-sliding mechanism make it a snap to open and close. Sporting a large & beautiful 3.5" AMOLED screen with 640x480 resolution, powered by the latest NVIDIA Tegra processor, and offering 32GB of internal storage as well as MicroSD up to 32GB for as much as 64GB total storage capacity. Although larger than the Pre, Proteus offers significantly longer battery life, and of course packs WiFi and FULL Bluetooth support. Proteus comes with a fingerprint-resistant dull-shine finish and is available in cherry red, midnight blue, lime green, and black.
[In other words, I don't mind it being a brick as long as it has a horizontal slider keyboard, bigger screen, more memory & storage, better processor. By the way -- touchscreen keyboards suck.]
AMEN...give us practicality over looks, who cares if it needs to be a little bit fatter to fit in a microsd slot, JUST do it...even though motorola didnt need all that space for the droid..PALM needs to learn about space compression
After some more thinking what I really want is a 2nd SDK for Linux level coding. I luv the web tech app but I really think they should support it.
give me something like the HTC HD2 but with a slide out keyboard ofcourse...Rene is drunk of apple juice...there is no substitute for a REAL keyboard, sorry the technology is not there yet just like speech recognition is still not good enough...
i do not like fighting with a virtual keyboard. its all about typing fast, accurate and not having read what you just typed because your virtual keyboard sucks and you dont trust it.
Rene, i am also young, 23 and not an old fart..people that prefer virtual keyboard to a real one dont like typing fast and accurate, end of story.
i would also like a more responsive screen (like the iphone or better)...better battery (pre battery sucks), removable media ....more memory and faster processor (tired of getting the "too many cards open" message on the pre when i only have one open or none)....dont put a removable battery if its impossible to remove, same goes for the micro usb latch.
high quality build, already on my fourth or fifth pre...oreo problem, turns off byitself when sliding open.
I wonder how many professionals are waiting for the next Palm device that can replace their Treo 755p (or 680 for those on GSM)?
The next Palm device should satisfy the Treo owners who want to upgrade.
- a keyboard as good as on the 680/755
- a memory card slot so we can continue to carry our reference material, songs, pics and video clips AND allow full backup when no other connectivity exists.
- the search functionality that PalmOS had, i.e it searched the data of ALL apps, Palm's AND third parties.
- be able to use the device without having to have a data contract, some of us have no need for social networking sites, and treat our smart phone as a PDA first and a phone second. And we want to control when we update the firmware.
- it must have WiFi for web access.
I understand Palm going for a different customer group with the Pre BUT it seems foolish to not have an upgrade path for their exiting Treo customers.
Rene - it's funny you mention that the kids aren't dependent on the physical keyboard because I've talked to more than a handful of parents whose kids denounce the iPhone for it's lack of physical keyboard. Reason? Because the text with their phone hidden from site while they sit in class. Picture one of those hoodies with the uni-pocket up front. With a virtual keyboard their hopes and dreams of texting without the teacher noticing are flushed right down the toilet. I'm not saying my sampling is scientific, but in my opinion it stands to reason. I think the physical keyboard is here to stay and Palm's implementation in the Pre is brilliant.
The build quality of the pre sucks, Palm just go back to the traditional candy bar form factor that the treos use to have with a larger screen and give me back my contact groups and a great keyboard like the 755p!!! Other than that i love web os I just need it to be move faster. I love palm i just wish they would listen to the consumer and they would dominate!!! It's simple CANDY BAR design and a great keyboard not that PIXI sh*&!!!
Palm needs to make a Pre II with a lager screen. They need to lose the curved vertical slider and make a large horizontal slide out keyboard. They need an actual keyboard. I don't know what all of these people are talking about with loosing the actual keboard but they are crazy. If the pre didn't have an actual keyboard i would never of got it. Also they need to make the button on the bottom to also be a form of navigation like the blackberry with the spinning ball. Video camera is huge!! Pre needs a video camera. you really don't realize home much you use it until you don't have one. Lose the glossy look. the touchstone back is awesome if the whole phone was that material it would be great and i wouldn't drop it as often.
Here's how I would improve upon the current Pre (most of which is physical):
- At least 30% larger screen real estate (the device could be 30% larger in width and height without giving up any depth)
- Remove the on/off button and just use the single button on the front bottom
- Remove the charger/usb input spot from the side and put in under the mic like the iPhone
- Change the keyboard buttons from rubbery surface to plastic and clicky like the BBerry curve (increased room for this from the 30% growth in hardware size)
- Video support (obvi)
Actually, I wouldn't mind seeing a soft keyboard similar to the iPhone (increased screen real estate makes this more possible)
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