As we know that some of you have noticed, webOS 1.3.1 changed the way that email is handled with respect to POP access. If you’re not familiar with POP (Post Office Protocol) email, essentially the way the service is ‘supposed’ to work is that computers download the email from the server but do not communicate their status back to the server (e.g. the server will not know if you’ve read the email). This stands in contrast to IMAP (Internet Message Access Protocol), in which read, flagged, and deleted statuses are synced back to the server and other clients accessing the same account. To deal with the amount of email that can amass on a server, many POP users choose to have the server delete messages after they’re downloaded by the computer.
Prior to the most recent webOS update, POP email status didn’t work quite the way it was ‘supposed’ to work. Email used to actually be checked back against the server, and if the email had been deleted there it was then deleted on the phone, even if you hadn’t read it on phone. From a design standpoint, that’s not ideal POP behavior, as POP is supposed to download messages and ignore what happens on the server after that. In essence, POP on webOS used to work sort of like IMAP 'lite' email. This worked well for users that relied on POP for their email access (many ISPs only offer POP), as handling emails in bulk on their computer subsequently handled them in bulk on their webOS phones.
Not so after webOS 1.3.1. According to Palm, the update ‘fixed’ POP email in webOS such that it behaves the way it ‘supposed’ to behave: it downloads messages and ignores what happens to them on the server after that. If you happen to rely on POP email and get a lot of it (many ISPs have poor spam filters), then you’ll end up with a mess of email to handle on both your computer and phone. We don’t see any indications that Palm will be unfixing this anytime soon. And while we don’t like to see users flustered, the simple fact is that Palm moved to the standard and ‘correct’ implementation of POP and this is how it should have worked from the start. If you can, we highly recommend moving to an email system that supports IMAP.
POP isn’t the only field of drama for email in webOS 1.3.1. Many users, this blogger included, have been having a bad week getting the Email app to work correctly. Some aren’t getting push notifications at all, others are getting them sparingly, most with problems are having trouble just getting the phone to reliably connect to the server. Others are having these problems and they don’t even have push enabled, instead they’re polling the server on a schedule and still not getting emails as they should. And yet more can’t even get their phones to manually refresh the email, which was more or less always a fail safe way to get your emails updated. And we can’t just blame it on email service, as users are reporting this problem with Gmail, Yahoo, Exchange, and even IMAP servers.
Before 1.3.1 if issues like this arose one could usually restart the phone or remove and re-add the email account, but now it seems that not even a full Doctoring can restore email functionality. Or sometimes it does. And sometimes it only restores full email functionality for a brief time. In short, it’s frustrating as all get out and very much hit-or-miss. If like me, much of your life revolves around email, this is more than an inconvenience.
Unlike with the POP tempest, Palm didn’t do this on purpose. We have been assured that they are aware that there are some bugs with Email in webOS 1.3.1 and that it is something they are working to fix. That fix, which will come via a beautiful over-the-air update, is something that Palm hopes to have ready soon. In the meantime, I’m stuck having to leave the Gmail website open on my Pre when I’m away from my computer. It’s not an ideal solution, and I'm certainly not happy with it, but at least it works. Kind of.
Comments
I have been having a different problem.
My POP account will only download one e-mail at a time, and not download another one until the previous one had been deleted.
I have having GMail get my POP mail as a work around but really isn't the ideal solution.
Well this would explain why I thought Hotmail was finally working correctly and not checking email at random intervals.
This has been a tough sell to explain to customer but is also proof of why bother with pop and get imap/exchange...
Just add your google account by adding a google account to your calendar in the Pre and it will setup your gmail automagically to IMAP.
How do I find out/change what one I'm using? I want IMAP and google says the pre is compatible with IMAP, is POP default for pre or does the pre have no control over it because its all on the server side? I looked on my gmail settings and could not figure out what one I'm using, IMAP was enabled already and I disabled POP. Anybody know?
Gmail should default to IMAP
Actually in your PC based HTML Gmail, under settings, you need to enable IMAP. I think POP is default.
I really think the IMAP-lite perspective is wrong. The WebOS email app prior to 1.3.1 behaved more like a browser-based webmail solution. While mail have been downloaded under the covers and deletes may have been sync'ed, it appears to be a second browser using a webmail app against my server copy of the mail. It worked as you expected it to work. Now it doesn't and it's more than a little inconvenient. I stopped using my ISP POP account with the Pre. Very sad.
I'm with you all the way Derek!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry to say I left my Blackberry Curve to depend on this device with my business mail and appointments. I miss my Curve!!! I'm hanging in there, but I'm starting to feel like a battered up customer and I am a few steps away from sending my Pre back to Palm HQ!!!
If you rely on POP for your business email, you’re doing your business wrong.
Thanks for the laugh, wise sir.
Derek the pessimist is here again, Palm has now fixed pop (note; i didn't use quotes) but again the great Derek has found issues with that, Palm finally is using pop the way it should and you only complain, you really shouldn't be writing stuff for precentral.
I don't mind reading criticism regarding palm, but this is by far the worst article I ever imagined, palm fixes something and your here to bitc* about it.
Do you have anything good to say about PALM and the PRE or are you just a bag of bones with a brick instead of a brain.
Abegee
There are many issues with this Palm Pre, Derek is hardly the one to bitch at. I read his lengthy post a week or so ago and he is right on mark. What should have been stated more succinctly in his post is why Palm would send forth a inferior product out to consumers. This Pre needs alot of work and many of us are suffering from that with these tweeks and patches which should have been in the original OS.
The Pre was supposed to be an upgrade and what we got was half-ass product.
And by the way, since I've received the 1.3... uprade... I've been getting double emails in my yahoo account for the past week. How's that for working nice huh??
By the way, I've been reading alot on the Android, the more I read the more I'm ready to jump ship from the webOS. The Android is looking so much better. They have a great post on the andriod central on their significant growth.
http://www.androidcentral.com/admob-report-shows-android-growing-droid-p...
To me Android is has too many different versions, 2.0, 1.6 and 1.5 all in use. I am tempted by the HTC Hero, but it is version 1.5 and a slow CPU. If Palm does not get better, a future Hero II will be for me. I wont switch to Verizon or AT&T. So it's Pre or Hero.
Agreed. And that will be the death of Android. While the techies love all the flexibility, the average user can't deal with it. This is the reason Microsoft still exists and we don't all have Linux machines. Too many differing interfaces. There are good reasons to have tight, fixed standards(even if they are bad). People get used to and understand how the product works. Android is going to fracture.
I was having spotty email notifications since 1.21. Upgraded to 1.31 didn't help much either. What did help was going into Preferences on each email account to find that notifications were disabled. How was I getting *some* notifications? I never turned off notofications so how were they disabled? I turned notifications back on for my Exchange and gmail accont and now I consistently get them.
to add one thing, the webos formatted gmail site has a huge issue that when you send an email, it goes blank and doesn't recover until I go to another site and then back to gmail
Seriously Derick are those hedge funds paying you to help them with their short positions!!
I was having spotty email notifications since 1.21. Upgraded to 1.31 didn't help much either. What did help was going into Preferences on each email account to find that notifications were disabled. How was I getting *some* notifications? I never turned off notofications so how were they disabled? I turned notifications back on for my Exchange and gmail accont and now I consistently get them. Not sure what happened.
"Ideal POP behavior" for who? Palm should give us the option to choose which behavior we want. If your phone is a secondary email device (as it is for MANY), now we all have to handle email received twice. I appreciate you bringing attention to this story, but please don't cave so easily.
Derrick I challenge you to write a legit article
;)
First of all, thank you so much for this report. Whether or not you agree with him--good fix vs. bad fix--it's at least timely information to explain what's going on.
I agree with ndz that the old way the POP account handled e-mail (as a IMAP account would, deleting e-mails no longer on server) was preferred. Now I have to delete e-mails twice!
Questions:
1. I use a Comcast POP account. Is there anything I can do to make it act like an IMAP account?
2. Is there any way to delete all e-mails in the Pre's Inbox quickly?
Thank you and thank you for this great web site!
have gmail (or another account) retrieve your Comcast.
I have Gmail retrieve my Hotmail since getting the Pre. Wasn't ideal, and forced me off hotmail which was for the better. Microsoft decided to stop allowing hotmail access to Outlook express. Fortunately I also have outlook, so I use that for all my accounts now, but I prefer OLE for simplicity.
Anyway, the Gmail hotmail pull thing isn't ideal, there is a lag time, maybe 10 minutes or more. It won't sync all your folders either, just pull your Inbox. But it will get my by till I fully move away from hotmail.
the prob I've been having w/ email after the 1.3 update is after I send the message by hutting the enter key or the paperplane symbol, the composed message never closes so I had to manually swipe the email card closed and check the sent message folders to make sure it worked. Usually (if a reply) the screen would go back to the original message. The "msg sending" message at the bottom still appears at the botto, but the card never closes. I have mine yahoo, gmail and aol set the get msg as they come and it took an entire day. So I would get a days worth of msgs all at once. Very weird
I'm not one to complain, but the newest update really broke things for me. Having no patches or themes to corrupt the process leaves me pointing my finger at Palm and Palm alone.
I got a story for you!!! That the palm pre and pixi are number 1 and 2 on amazon!!! Dare you to write about that and then spin it around ;) Keep up the good work and great palmcast tonite
Ok then, can anyone explain to me why *every* single pop email program that I've used since at least as far back as 1991 has worked the way that the Pre's email used to work? At least you were given a choice to keep email on the server or not. Palm's implementation of email was already slow and kludgy (no "delete all?") yet they saw fit to correct this "problem" that makes email even more difficult to use? Even with "delete all" patches, which run very slowly and inconsistently, it is extremely painful to use the palm email program now.
My email usage has been the following for as long as I can remember: I pop-email my messages remotely on work computers and other devices (cell phones, Yahoo email) but I don't delete from the server. When I get home, I have my home computer download them and remove them from the server. On one of my email accounts I generally get ~100 emails a day. To delete them the "WebOS" way, I would have to swipe all 100 email off the screen. And THEN do the same in the wastebasket! Multiply that by the 8 or 9 email accounts I have, and I'm quickly pining for the old way back....or for someone to write a pop/imap email program that makes SENSE!
Grumble grumble grumble
Email app now has empty trash option in trash folder.
Yeah but we still have to move every individual email to the trash and then delete.
I definitely liked the pre 1.3 better. Bring back the choice at least.
People still delete email? I haven't done that in years.
I would prefer the fixed behavior on my pop but even after the update I still watch my emails disappear from my Pre without my permission (after I download them onto my main email PC).
I now have to keep all mail on the server so I don't lose messages on the Pre.
Give me the choice, please.
Quote: "Ideal POP behavior" for who? Palm should give us the option to choose which behavior we want. If your phone is a secondary email device (as it is for MANY), now we all have to handle email received twice. I appreciate you bringing attention to this story, but please don't cave so easily.
Submitted by ndz on Wed, 11/25/2009 - 00:02.
---
I unerstand that you might not *like* the new behavior, but Palm corrected a bug with email not complying with the POP standard. They should not provide an option to 'undo' a bug fix. If you use POP email and don't like how it works, that's your issue, not Palm's.
Obviously, the previous behavior is preferred by many. All we are asking is for Palm to give us the choice. Sorry to you and those who may lose sleep over POP-standard compliance in WebOS.
I have been having gmail issues for several days now. Maybe this is why. It's not loading emails without me manually doing it. I'm assuming this could be the problem?
I was very happy with the changes in the e-mail. It was very frustrating to me that every time I downloaded my e-mail using Outlook on my laptop all the e-mails disappeared from my Palm.
Why would Palm assume I only wanted the e-mails in one place or the other? I may delete an e-mail containing an address or phone number from my Outlook that I might want to keep it on my Pre.
So whatever Palm did works for me.
Best solution to me is don't rush to upgrade. I am still running 1.2.1 and have no plans to upgrade. Everything works, I have all my tweaks, and the missing facebook apps are both installed in the form of Palbook and FriendsFlow.
Small error: IMAP = Internet Message Access Protocol
I knew an "A" was missing!
I'm also having poblems with the e-mail app. Sometimes I won't receive e-mail, other times sending an e-mail fails and it prompts me to change my pop settings. It also loads the e-mail slow or it will get stuck. I hope they fix it soon.
Wow this explains a lot!! I've been trying to use the WebOS Repair Utility but with no luck so far! My email app just displays a blank white page & doesn't enable me to add any of my accounts now (hotmail, gmail & yahoo)! So no email for me at all!! This outta be interesting!!!!gggrrrrrrrr
Fellas, those who know me KNOW I am one of Palm's staunchest supporters. Yet for the first time I think Derek and Precentral have actually UNDER-reported all of the problems people are having with 1.3.1 ... I respect all the things Palm is changing under the hood, but during daily use? This update feels like a step BACKWARDS! My Pre moves slower, it's less stable... and STILL lacks some of the features I've forecasted we'd see by now to prospective buyers ... yes, you heard me right: I'm starting to fear that I'll MISLEAD people into buying the Pre.
Look, I still love Palm and my Pre. I still love their mission, I still love webOS and I still feel it has amazing potential... but things are moving slowly, and when I see them move BACKWARDS, it's upsetting. Makes the Pre a tougher sell.
C'mon Palm. Step on the gas! ... Or is this as fast as she'll go?
I agree 100% there! This latest update really feels like a huge step backwards. Regardless of them "fixing" how POP email is supposed to behave on the Pre, I also believe that Palm should let us have the choice of how we want the email to behave.
Especially when the users have experienced it both ways, why not just put the option instead of forcing everyone go one way or the other? Isn't that one of the reasons we chose the Pre over the iPhone?
I also believe in Palm and I just hope they make the right decisions... otherwise we supporters will just feel cheated.
Palm didn't make any standards changes, but did change how their client handles downloaded messages. I prefer the old way. This phone still totally stinks at handling certs and unsigned certs especially. Because of this inability I have a smtp relay server running so that all the pre users in my company can send email more easily through my mail server.
This is the only smartphone that handles email so terribly.
Its my fault getting this thing as soon as it was available.
In another couple of months I'll run over this phone so I can get a different phone.
Oh yeah.. The comment about moving to exchange.. You seen the price tag? Lot of work for a single smartphone problem. My mailserver that I run supports POP3 only. And only the pre users have more problems than any other smartphones with email.
I agree that with several others that this phone is really not a move forward. With each update I like this phone less.
People still use antiquated POP3?
Anyway I thought Gmail was acting nuts.
The warning triangle showed up mostly overnight and goes away during the day.
I can manually check email but as it arrives is a hit or miss.
1.3.1 has been quite buggy with this and it's pauses and skips.
Few nitpicky issues with this:
1) POP was designed with the idea in mind that once you downloaded a copy of email off the server you would delete it from the server. POP came into being when dialup was king. The idea was to download all the email, then read it later. It was an "option" to leave the mail on the server. The default behavior was to delete it from the server once you got it. This made it hard to read email from multiple locations.
2) IMAP was designed with constant connections in mind. With IMAP, it was assumed that you were on a LAN with lots of bandwidth and high reliability. Email was left on the server specifically because you would only retrieve the email when you wanted to read it. Initially IMAP clients didn't keep local copies of the email. They just retreived what they needed when it needed it. At startup, they'd retrieve the headers. When you openedn an email, then they'd retrieve the body. When you closed it, they'd discard that data. If you opened it up again, that generated a new request to retrieve the body again. IMAP clients that cached local copies of server data are relatively new.
The advantage of IMAP over POP was that IMAP made it possible to read email from multiple machines. To do this with POP required the option of "leaving email on the server".
Before gmail, POP was popular with ISPs because they didn't want to store your email. They wanted you to retrieve it and get it off their server as fast as possible. Then gmail came along and offered to store a whole 1GB of email for you. Suddenly competition forced mail providers to offer more space. All while broadband, and always on internet, was taking over. These two things caused the utility of POP to diminish.
IMHO, in today's world POP is a relic that should be avoided if at all possible. Almost everyone tries to read the same email from multiple locations (mobile, desktop, web). And POP just doesn't do this very well. The solution to this problem is not to try and fix the mail client's support for POP. The solution is to upgrade the protocol from POP to IMAP.
If your mail provider doesn't offer IMAP, switch. They're stuck in the dark ages.
$0.02
POP is not necessarily a relic. I use it at home because I want my personal email on my personal computer, in the end. I use IMAP as well to access it from everywhere else.
Of course you are about the »If your mail provider doesn't offer IMAP, switch.« bit. ISPs need to offer the option.
great explaination of history. Understanding where things come from makes things much easier. It leads to the why, not just what do these letters stand for, and the why is true knowledge. Thanks
Posts are so informative where we get lots of information on any topic. Nice job keep it up..
CG tutorial
I also have a lot of problems with my email accounts on my GSM Pre since 1.3.1. And I'm not even using POP3, but two IMAP accounts, Google and Fastmail, both set to "as emails arrive". Had no problems with 1.1.3, but with 1.3.1 getting the new mail notifications is very unreliable. And the device also uses a lot more power, maybe because it has now more problems connecting to the servers, which creates more traffic.
At least it's good to know that I'm not alone with my email problems and that Palm is apparently working on a fix. I just hope that they will test the next update better than this one. Breaking email of all things...
POP is broken for me too :(
I liked the old way it worked, but accept it may need to work the 'correct' POP way.
However at the moment it does neither.
It does not remove emails from my server after I've deleted them off the Pre, yes I've set the Tag to sync deleted emails.
Plus it either sits there 'refreshing' for a long time, or gives me the yellow error triangle.
So at the moment it's useless as an email reader ?
The initial growing pains were acceptable for us early adopters who got the Pre in the first few weeks I suppose. I had hardware and software issues that I just accommodated... e.g., stuffing some paper in the battery compartment to avoid power outs due to the loose battery. Ultimately I had to get 2 replacements due to a bad screen and the famed stuck volume control... with a good amount of loss of use, disruption, and time spent reloading apps/reconfiguring. The hardware seems to be OK now... but the software... now 5 months after release... is getting worrisome. I am not a homebrewer... I just install official Palm updates as available over the air. For some bizarre reason, for months Exchange Server users (read: business users) have had to deal with an inability to send out emails in anything other than an oversized font... making it appear to the receivers (read: clients, colleagues, customers, etc) that you are yelling... with unprofessional looking results. Its so bad, many of us are only using the Pre to receive EAS emails, and only return emails from Outlook on a computer when we are in the office. Is that what users/Palm want to be their smartphone experience? OK, so glitches happen... but should an issue like this that renders the Pre unusable for a core customer base... business users... be allowed to persist for more than a week or two? And now with the sluggishness of 1.3.1 and new issues created... you can't help but wonder if Palm is just too overwhelmed and woefully understaffed to pull this product off. I hope they are working on some additional funding, merger, or whatever to get the right amount of resources to provide at least a minimum level of reliability and service level. If they don't do something soon to fix the software issues, I'll have no choice but to throw in the towel for a BB, Android or iPhone.
I was on 1.1.3 before updating and my Exchange account worked perfectly. After updating I received an SSL error. I couldn't be bothered to fix it so I removed my Exchange account in a childish huff. Perhaps it's for the best.
I'm gonna sound like an apologist and Palm fanboy again, but I have none of the bugs reported above. It's really amazing that some people have a smooth experience and others always have problems. But then each of my 5 email accounts, including gmail use imap...
Ditto. I haven't had any problems with my Pre, software or hardware, and I bought it day one. But I use IMAP too.
And one of the reasons why I moved to IMAP is because of problems I was having with POP and Thunderbird on my desktop.
POP problems happen. Email problems happen. Software prolems happen. With Blackberry, with Apple, with everyone. I'm 110% certain that Palm is working on a fix and will listen to your comments. I can tell you, from personal experience, the Pre is more stable than the BB Storm was at launch. The Storm was a bug-tastic mess and they went through the same process of stamping out bugs with each release until the Storm 2 came out.
I think it is important to talk about the problems and let Palm know what needs to be fixed, but I also think that some perspective is needed.
Well, one some Email front ends you can configure a POP service to almost act like a IMAP service. One by leaving the mail on the server for a time and delete it once it has been deleted on the client side of the system. I miss that from 1.2.1, that is how WebOS was functioning. It had that attribute where if i downloaded to my main computer, the webOS updated and removed those emails that were not on the server anymore.
Key is to added this options to the POP setup on the WebOS side so we can atleast configure our phones to react the way we would like to use our POP servers.
Bruce
I am glad that Palm has decided to follow standards with the Post Office Protocol. That last thing consumers need is another protocol that is tweak and adjusted by a company/corporation resulting in loss of interoperability. I just wish that the paragraphs regarding POP reflected this thinking.
After reading the comments, it seems that several people are trying to use POP as an IMAP or EAS account. These particular people should just use the official protocol that best suits their needs.
I use TWO EAS accounts. One, Exchange 2003. Another, Kerio Mailserver v6.7.2. With 1.2.1, the email application would alwasy crash. Before 1.2.1, I didn't experience this problem. To workaround this issue, I disabled WiFi. Since 1.3.1, this problem has been solved. While I still receive my emails, I noticed that I am not always notified. I have to actually look in the Inbox.
When launch date for the Pre was announced, it was painfully obvious that Palm rushed this device to beat the new iPhone. Of course, that means an unfinished device was to be sold to consumers. Palm better finish this device or risk WebOS phones being labeled as inferior by consumers. However, we might be in the beginning stages of this.
Occasionally, I go to a Sprint store just to look around and listen to the conversations between Staff and consumers. I hear "average non-techie" people tell Sprint employees, "I don't want the Pre. I heard it is unreliable."
So, Palm, hurry up and make this phone reliable before your reputation as a supplier of inferior products becomes widespread.
BTW, I like my Pre, but I need a little bit more reliability with the email app and web browser.
was I the only one who had success getting email up and runnig again with the 1.3.1 repair utility? My email and my phone have been working great since I passed through the repair utility with success.
Somewhat related,
IMAP support could be better too. One of the great strengths of IMAP is being able to organize things into folders, ONCE (via .procmailrc, in my case). Why doesn't the mail app check all 'favorite' folders, and not just the inbox for updates? I have to forward all mail to a 2nd account just to be sure I don't miss anything the way it is now (and then have to re-read, re-delete stuff on my other mail clients). Bah.
Isn't this the whole point of using imap enhanced idle in the first place?
This is silly, POP is old and specifically made not to support what you guys want it to do. The Leave on server "option" is a hack where the client instead of downloading the entire mail just downloads the top lines until all of it is downloaded. It fools the server to think that it's not downloaded yet. IMAP was made to fix this and covers all use cases in POP as well as extend it to do what you guys are asking about.
The POP3 RFC specifically mentions this:
POP3 is not intended to provide extensive manipulation operations of mail on the server; normally, mail is downloaded and then deleted. A more advanced (and complex) protocol, IMAP4, is discussed in[RFC1730].
So Palm fixed this bug in the software and now it works like it should. Hacks and workarounds like you guys were used to are undependable and should be fixed. If you need this functionality get IMAP, if not stay with POP.
OK - Possible dumb question alert - How can I configure my mail so when I delete it (empty trash) from my Pre it will also delete it off the server?
It seems that the 1.3.1 has brought a few bugs and that palm can't get it right I've been thinking about taking my pre and going to the sprint hero
Thanks for posting this. I've been having trouble ever since 1.3.1, specifically with push and the "as it arrives" option. I chatted with a palm agent about it who had me change it to check every 5 minutes and they seemed satisfied that this was a fix. I asked them to escalate it, but I'm not optimistic.
It seems like a lot of people are hung up on the need to meet an old standard regardless of whether or not it actually provides the best functionality for everyone. The fact is that for some people (myself included), the previous functionality worked better. In "fixing it", Palm broke it, as far as I'm concerned. They took a product that worked well for me, and made it work less well.
I maintain my email through a web client, which happens to be through Yahoo. If I've filed or deleted an email in my web client, I don't want to have to delete it AGAIN on my phone, particularly since doing so requires me to swipe each message individually, then remove it from the Trash. What Palm should have done is offered offered people the choice to either use POP according to the standard, or continue to use the enhanced functionality they previously provided. Palm did so many things right with the Pre, anticipating people's needs, that I'm really surprised that they've messed this one up so much.
And simply telling people to switch to an email provider that can use IMAP is not a solution. That's not a reasonable option for me, and I suspect it's not an option for many.
As I wrote above it's not "enhanced functionality", it's a bug and a hack. I'm glad you liked the consequences of the bug but it was still a bug that meant it gave unpredictable results across servers.
And simply saying "it's not a reasonable option for me" is why it must be so difficult for consumers (in the US?) to get IMAP. You want functionality that is specifically and explicitly not supported by this protocol used by your provider but you are not prepared to switch to a provider that do support it. Strange that your providers don't see the need to give you what you say you want..
From the top of my head (after a few beers), these are some advantages of IMAP4rev1 (which came in the middle of the nineties) over POP3:
Here's a pretty good comparison http://email.cityu.edu.hk/faq/popimap.htm
They don't even have to switch providers, if they'd follow the advice listed above about using an aggregator such as gmail that DID support IMAP, that would give them what they want. As a plus, gmail would probably filter spam as good or better than what is currently in place (personally saw this when I switched to gmail 8 months ago).
Pull your email into a FREE gmail account (which can pull from several inboxes/addresses, see http://bit.ly/4nY5RM for info), sync your Pre/Pixi with that account. You can still set up your old POP accounts on your phone (and manual sync to keep them clear: ie,never sync/pull to them) if you need to be able to SEND from them. :)
So now you want us to go to another email provider just so that I can the email done properly from my original email provider that already has spam filters in place. Does this "work-around", even if it does work, make sense. Why should anyone even have to do this when email was working properly to begin with. And as for the statement we could just "(and manual sync to keep them clear: ie,never sync/pull to them)". Manually sync - come on!
Does this even make sense when I supposedly have the most advanced phone Palm has ever made? I am sorry but if it ain't broke, Palm's new philosopy is to fix it?
Since the 1.3.1 update I cannot get SMTP to work on my phone consistently. It says "error sending " and has the yellow trianle with black ! in the middle. If I tap it, it says nothing about the error. The email will send eventually, but I can never get it to consistently work unlike it did before 1.3.1
Fix your stuff Palm. This is getting old.
If as everyone says that POP is old and those of us that still use it should "step-up" to IMAP, why would they even care if Palm left it the way it was. I travel on business and have had the same email account for 10 years with Earthlink so I have over 2000 contacts and don't want to change to another provider. If I am anywhere I can check my emails but I need the computer as my replys are not just a line or two long. Why not just leave it the way it was or give us a button option to let us choose. Last night I had 122 emails in my inbox with no way of deleting them except one by one. Even Outlook lets me highlight and delete. Sure we now have a Delete All button, but it is only for the Trash Bin. If Palm were going to make this change why not put a delete button and a highligh delete function for the inbox. This phone was hyped as a Business users friend, but it seems to be becoming more user unfriendly. It seems as though Palm doesn't want to tackle real issures, (ie. Calendar), but instead screws up what is working OK. My first first Palm Pilot on up to my Treo were less frustrating!
All these goofball "standards" defenders don't even use POP email. They all use IMAP so of course they know what is best for the rest of us. Upgrade! It's better anyways! Change your ISP!
Why does it hurt them so much if Palm were to provide the users with a choice? Are they really that adamant about POP standards (give me a break). Or are they just a bunch of Palm Fanboi's that will defend any change? I would bet the latter.
WebOS users do have a choice: POP, IMAP, and EAS. Not to mention other free email systems such as Yahoo and Gmail. If a POP user desires to have email "replicate" or "synchronize" on WebOS like is used to do, then maybe their needs require a more robust or different email protocol. Maybe one designed to accomplish exactly what they need? I don't understand why people try to tweak, hack, and change a protocol to suit their needs when another standard would give them exactly what they want.
BTW, IMAP has it's limitations too. However, for only email synchronization, it works fine.
Did we "try to tweak, hack, and change a protocol" by using what Palm has provided to us for the past 6-months?
Read all the comments on this page and the other 13-page thread about this on the Palm forums. There has been one person out of a hundred who likes the new change. Why change what worked well for the past 6-months w/o providing a user option to choose POP account behavior?
Once again, a person who doesn't even use what we are talking about (POP) has the answer. You Fanboi's can't have it both ways. Talk about how old and inferior the POP protocol is yet defend why Palm should strictly abide by POP standards? The gig is up.
"I don't understand why people try to tweak, hack, and change a protocol to suit their needs when another standard would give them exactly what they want."
What a ridicules comment. Palm changed what worked fine for 6 months. No one tried to tweak, hack or change anything. Palm brought out the Pre with POP protocals working one way and then for no reason changed it without providing an option. I respect your right to comment, but please don't make things up. Outlook works fine with a POP protocal and I can do anything with it I need. Gmail - COME ON! Who in business uses Gmail or Yahoo.
Thank you for this article. I've been experiencing these imap problems and was concerned it was my Pre. It is oddly comforting to know it's everybody.
mine still is not working, little exclamation mark, and emails wont come thru... I get online on the PC and they are there...this sucks!
The latest update and problems I've been having getting my emails (gmail), which is a VERY important issue to me specifically for work purposes, has caused me to switch to the Hero today. I will miss the Pre as I was one of it's staunchest supporters. The Homebrew Devs are doing an AMAZING job making the Pre better than Palm actually is. Funny, Palm sends out an update and it makes the phone worse? Un-be-lievable. I still have it and may keep it for a while, but it will be in my closet until I see a reason to activate again. Having patience is one thing, but what appears to be a total lack of effort on Palm's part is totally unforgiving.
By the way, the Hero is a superb machine. The apps are endless and actually USEFUL! Better yet, most of the most useful ones are FREE!! I got tired of searching thru the marketplace and I'm only probably 1/2 way through. I have already downloaded over 70 apps. Games are phenomenal as well. I am really enjoying the customization also. It's like night and day. I will miss WebOS and the multitasking ability of the Pre, but for everything else the Hero has to offer, I wont miss it too long I'm sure.
I've used yahoo email for years. When I got my Pre it worked so flawlessly. No I have to read up on POP and figure out what settings I need to make and figure out what emails are going to be left where... It worked perfectly before!
The number of responses indicate that the author of this article is out of touch with the users of this phone, and so is Palm.
just switched form my curve to the pre. I'm seconds from going back. Email takes precedence over everything else and i need to know when they have arrived. and... its imperative that palm people add a led blink notification option like blackberry has. im not a techie genius and I'm not gunna attempt to reprogram a several hundred dollar phone on my own to make that happen.
I have to mention that I grow tired of reading comments about people threatening to leave Palm and WebOS at every turn. If the product doesn't cut it for you, just leave. Don't make it a big deal. Don't try to pressure Palm into providing you the exact set of features you want for your phone when you believe that competitors offer a better deal.
Just leave if you are not happy. But stop it with the threats as if your posts could make Palm fearful of losing you.
There's been a lot of bad news recently. The Euro screw up, the loss back ups and now this - although for some it's not such a bad news.
If the WebOS experience doesn't cut it anymore leave. But don't threaten Palm. What you are doing is hurting the company even more by making new potential customers who may not have issues with WebOS as is to pick another product.
And my invitation goes to Dereck who I can't recall has ever written anything positive or said anything good about Palm in the podcasts.
I come here to get more help with my phone and keep informed. Not to be demoralized.
Odd. the day this article came out, BOTH my IMAP accounts stopped working...
Personal IMAP: receives but cannot send email. I get error messages with the triangle w/exclamation point. But even though it says "error", my recipient(s) reports they received it 26 times. Also, when it finally does send (very rare) it doesn't show in sent folder anymore.
Work IMAP: Won't update with new emails coming in... ever. I had it set on both every "5 minutes" and "as they arrive". nada.
I'm sorry, but this is a smartphone. PALM - Please fix this ASAP. Honestly, it's unprofessional to let this go on.
This has also been my experience, and I'm using Gmail (IMAP). As a workaround to the send problem, I'm now CC:ing myself on outgoing emails (to retain a copy) and deleting the message from the Outbox as soon as the error pops. Most times I can stop it from sending more than 2-3 copies. I CAN'T BELIEVE this made it past Palm's UAT department!!!
**update:
I contacted Palm. they fixed my personal IMAP by replacing my server (imap.1and1.com / smtp.1and1.com) with the IP addresses for each one.
Still can't get the work email to work.... Palm is out of solutions.
Lots of emotion on this one! The best solution may be a "purge" option or some other method to more quickly remove old messages.
I was away from my office for 2 weeks. My work uses a POP email server. I downloaded the update while i was away (i'm a geek that just couldn't wait) and had to swipe away about 100 or more messages on the phone. A purge or some other selection routine would have saved a lot of time.
I just started having this issue today with my Fastmail account (IMAP). I deleted the e-mail account and then added it again. It synched the first time when the account was readded but has stopped. I get a yellow triangle with the exclamation point in the upper portion of the bar. My Gmail e-mail account works fine.
After 6 months of a lovely relationship with my Palm Pre, I have jumped to an HTC Hero which will arrive shortly. I'm so sorry to have to do that. I really did love the Pre but this problem is way too serious to just wait around for an OS update. Further, although someone stated that Palm was on this, they've made no mention of the fact publicly nor have they announced when the fix would be forthcoming. I'll miss the Pre, but I'm excited about the Hero.
When I delete an email from my palm pre, my ISP mail server (whichuses WebMail), only marks the email in the Inbox with a line through the middle. If I set the Palm Pre to use the Deleted Folder for the trash folder, then I get ANOTHER copy of the email in the deleted folder. The copy in the Inbox with the line through it stays there until I log in witht he web client and delete the Inbox emails and purge the Deleted folder. What a PITA!
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