As great, grand, and glorious as the Palm Pre will be, those using the Sprint version will find that their Pre has an Achilles Heel. Pam Deziel, Palm's vice president of software product management, confirmed at Mobile World Congress on Tuesday that the U.S. Sprint version of the Pre won't be able to surf the Internet and engage a call at the same time. Bummer!
The reason why the U.S. version of the Pre is affected this way is due to the EVDO network that Sprint uses in the U.S. - it can't run data and voice simultaneously. Data must be suspended while on a call, but resume when the call is completed. The Pre that will be released in Europe is a UMTS device for the European carrier's UMTS network. UMTS allows for simultaneous use of voice and data. Will this chink in the Pre's armor be enough to discourage any of you from buying the Sprint version? Will you wait for a GSM unlocked Pre instead?
Thanks, William, for the tip!
[pcmag]
Comments
I got bigger issues waiting for the Pre to be released on VZW.
It's not a big deal for me!
Does anyone really browse the internet while on a call on their cellphone?
I mean wouldn't that be lame unless you had a bluetooth in your ear? I guess it might be good if you are on a call and you say hold on a second while I forward you an email or something, but other than very few particular instances, this is definitely NOT a big deal.
Although, I wonder if lets say you have your Pre in a windshield mount and you have Telenav open and a call comes in it will interupt your Navigation?
Although, as far as I know, Telenav only downloads data at the beginning of a route to download the entire map route, or if you make a wrong turn and it recalculates.
So, even for GPS Nav, it should rarely be any sort of a problem.
Ooh, that is a big deal. If I knew how long a GSM version would take to come out then I might decide to wait. On the other hand, the Pre and the iPhone are not devices with which I'd want to share networks.
But... being that the Pre is more open, perhaps an IP telephony application is due to change the data/voice limitation. Sprint does advertise that their 3G network is the fastest, so if I use voice as data and data as data, then why shouldn't you be able to do both at the same time?
Err no, ATT says their network is the fastest. Sprint says their network is MOST RELIABLE.
OMG. this is horrible. i would absolutely use a call and web at the same time. maps, restaurants, theatres, etc. while making plans. not a complete deal killer, but a huge "WHYYYYYY, sprint, whyyyy?!"
It's cdma, not sprint. Why verizon why? LOL
But if you want slower GSM with worse 3g coverage with a 50% markup in price per month and are willing to wait a year or two, then that's an option too..
whatif your sweetheart calls you to chat about movies to see tonight and you need to access the online showtimes? wouldn't that be a pain?
and BTW, can the iPhone do this on ATT's network? any clue?
Seriously!? Who the hell cares. The number of people that use the web and talk at the same time is very low.
I don't. It is not going to stop me from getting one. Hope it comes out soon ^-^
This is a BIG problem with tethering. So I can't email, look up webpages, online docs, etc. on my laptop while I'm talking on the phone? Major bummer.
I have never even thought about surfin the net while on a phone call. No biggie to me.
What if you are web surfing, will you be able to receive a call and/or text message?
You can receive a call while surfing, you cannot initiate one. You're able to receive an email during a call, you cannot send one, although some Sprint customers have said they are able to. TXT messaging is the only feature that works (allowed) simultaneously on Sprints network.
Ah, great thanks! That's fine with me then... the other scenarios I won't ever use. As long as I can still receive email, texts, and calls while surfing works for me.
That sounds odd to me. Sending and receiving e-mail both need an open data connection. There's no other difference. So either you can do both while on a call or you can't do either one. I bet it's the latter, as the data connection is closed during calls. But it might be possible that incoming calls cut the data connection.
This is a non-story - CDMA has never been able to simultaneously do voice and data. This is a big "duh".
What the Pre most likely will be able to do is use voice and wifi simultaneously, though.
@Brian Hart
I guess you haven't read through the 70+ posting in the "Palm Pre feature Roundup" article. I provided information which says otherwise. Sprints EVDO network IS capable of simultaneous voice/data. The voice will have to use VOIP which uses the EVDO network, the voice and data would use the same switch on EVDO. Sprint has a VOIP network, QChat (Sprints push to talk) uses VOIP. The question is, will Sprint ever allow voice calls over VOIP? As it stands now Sprint only allows PTT.
Here is information which shows a successful simultaneous voice/data connection over EVDO:
http://www.qualcomm.com/news/releases/2006/060607_successfully_demonstra...
I have often been irritated by this on my Sprint Treo 755p. There have been many times on BT or speakerphone that I wanted to look something up or surf out of boredom, even. If it was released date and day, I would absolutely go to another carrier over this. As it stands, it's at least something to think about. Major letdown.
This is interesting. I live up in Canada and have a smartphone running on the Telus network which is a EVDO CDMA network. I am most definitely able to make calls and use the data connection at the same time.
I think it's a little disingenuous to say that you can do voice and data simultaneously as long as the voice is VOIP, since VOIP is data. Tether to your laptop and you can definitely use skype at the same time as your other web surfing. Anyway, this is not news, but it certainly is a limitation of EVDO that has not received a lot of press. While few people will actually web surf while on a call, it's nice to still receive your push email or have background processes run uninterrupted (weather and traffic widgets, RSS feeds, large down/uploads, etc).
It is not disingenuous, what does VOIP being data have to do with it? Sprint does not use their VOIP for data connections, VOIP is only used for Sprints QChat network. Saying "but it certainly is a limitation of EVDO", is "disingenuous." The limitation is not the EVDO network, Sprint limits the ability of their devices, the ability to simultaneously use voice/data. Sprints devices are very-well capable, It is not possible without EVDO!
"It is not disingenuous, what does VOIP being data have to do with it?"
When voice is carried not with the tradutional circuit swithced network, but over VOIP, it's just data, so you are essentially claiming that DOrA is capable of simultaneous data and data. Now granted, until RevA, data trafic did not enable the QoS controls necessary for VOIP, but I stand by my statement that voice is not really being carried simultaneously with data in DOrA (or DOrB, for that matter). The vast majority of cellular voice calls are circuit switched, and that is not going to change until 4G.
Disappointing. I would certainly consider not getting it on Sprint because of this, but ultimately, I think I'd just suck it up like I do with my 755p.
I'm hoping that wifi would function while on a call, at least.
To answer another poster's question, there are times when I'm on the phone and the conversation makes me want or need to look up something online. It'd be more convenient to be able to go online while still exchanging information with the person on the call. It doesn't happen all the time, but neither does my need to tether.
But when you DO need it, it sucks not to have it.
Is this applicable for 3G sprint connections?
As other have pointed out this is nothing new to CDMA customers. You can still get incoming calls and answer them while using EVDO data. But the data is put on hold once the call is active. However this doesn't stop SMS and email and possibly other stuff. Telenav has a setting to supress audio during a call so you can continue to use GPS while on a call. If you really need to grab data related to the call your on why not call the person right back after you get the info up on the device. Like the example of movie listings. Load up the info and call back. Or use wifi. Unless you aren't in range. Honestly this shouldn't be an issue for 99% of people. There are other ways to communicate if you must talk and data at the same time. IM, SMS, etc. Then resume voice call. As others pointed out VOIP is possible too. Probably will need 3rd party app for it. Will this be a problem that reduces sales and people hopping to sprint for the pre, I highly doubt it. Just look at the iphone, despite its number of limitations, copy/paste, removeable battery, etc people flocked to it and even switched carriers.
As has been said, this is a limitation of EVDO, not sprint specifically. It sounds worse than it is actually. Many people claim to not be effected by this because it isn't something people generally notice. You will still receive emails while on a call, you will still receive/send text messages while on a call.
What can't you do? Tethering will be paused when you initiate or answer a call. Web browsing will pause just the same. Anything else, such as streaming internet radio or downloading a new app, will pause upon initiating a call. All of these things automatically resume at the end of the call.
What can you do to get around this in the USA? Get an unlocked euro Pre and run it on AT&T or T-Mobile. Both networks, by the way, suck in the USA. T-Mobile has next to zero 3G coverage, and AT&T has better but still spotty 3G coverage with insanely priced plans. For better or for worse, EVDO is generally the best way to go in the states.
Personally, I'm happy the Pre is on Sprint. I'm glad to trade the simultaneous voice/data in exchange for better voice & 3G coverage as well as having significant monthly savings on my cell phone bill. In fact, a big reason I'm so interested in the Pre is specifically BECAUSE it's on sprint! (I'm a current AT&T/iPhone subscriber)
I reiterate, it is NOT a limitation of EVDO, it is Sprint NOT allowing simultaneous voice/data connections. Please click on the link below:
http://www.qualcomm.com/news/releases/2006/060607_successfully_demonstra...
You guys, try reading through the comments, check out the links (when provided) as well!
"Informed"..this is using VOIP technology over the EVDO Data service.
Currently Sprint uses this for their PTT service on the EVDO Rev. A network. I wouldn't be surprised to see a full VOIP rollout in future devices to effectively accomplish simultaneous voice/data as you are mentioning - but NO USA EVDO carrier has this yet. The problem lies in the fact that no US carrier has a proper Rev. A rollout - and hand-offs back to CDMA voice when Rev. A service goes out of range would require massive system changes - changes that will be all for nothing as their Rev. A system will eventually be everywhere (Like Rev. 0 is just about now).
I wouldn't expect a VOIP phone from sprint until they start rolling out Rev. B - by this time, their Rev. A network should be substantial enough to have proper coverage for this type of service.
Again, though, this is not a sprint only problem. EVERY CDMA carrier has this issue and NO CDMA carrier in the USA utilizes VOIP - yet. I find it interesting no one seems to complain about this with the Blackberry storm, but yet are finding fault with the Pre - they both are on CDMA/EVDO networks and both cannot do simultaneous voice + data. When was the last time you heard all those Storm users crying out in agony?
Stop crying you pessimists. If you need to communicate with people while making plans and looking up what to do online, then surf while you text/IM/E-Mail them. This is how Palm's been demonstrating that sort of thing all along, and that's sure as hell how I've done it over the past 8 years anyway. Or, just connect to WiFi wherever you are in which case you WOULD be able to do simultaneous voice and data. WiFi is available almost everywhere I go now accept obviously while I'm in the car driving to get there. And if you absolutely MUST have simultaneous voice and data at ALL times even out and about, then just do one of the above suggestions until Sprint rolls out Rev.B late this year or early next year and we all get a firmware update on our Pre's to support it anyway.
For those of you that are complaining about tethering, you're either going to be paying outrageous extra fees for using your Pre as a modem, or you're going to add the $60 unlimited data plan to your current plan. And if you do this, why not get the small USB dongle for free and plug that into your laptop and use that and your Pre separately? Why pay the same amount monthly to hook your bigger smartphone up to your laptop for internet? Maybe I'm missing something as I've never found myself in a position outside of available WiFi where I've had to tether to get internet on my laptop, but why people would want to use their smartphones for this instead of the smaller, less-cumbersome USB dongles I've never quite understood. Unless of course you don't subscribe to the data as modem plan and you only tether in emergency situations. I can completely understand that.
My parents have just hit their 70s, and are land line only. Texting isn't going to work to communicate with them. For me, the lack of this option will be a hindrance, because my father comes to Atlanta quarterly for business (yes, he still works). We almost always go out to eat, and it would be very handy to be able to look up restaurant sites while speaking with him on the phone.
WiFi is locked down at my workplace, so that's not an option for me, either.
I'd like to see this problem fixed, because I'm someone for whom it actually matters.
so how do you manage right now?
Dang!! This kills the one feature I needed. For those who asked who would need to surf for data while on the phone, there is a service for hard of hearing people that lets you read (via a webpage) what the other person is saying when on a call. So far the iPhone 3G is the only smartphone that can do this all in one unit.
Maybe it'll work with VOIP as a few posters said, but until it's proven to work, I've lost my motivation to get the Pre asap.
I can see the benefits of being able to simultaneously surf the web while a call, but honestly people not many of you really do it? I am betting 1 out a 1000 does and even that 1 doesn't do it that often. Of course, I would like to have it just in case I ever need it, but it is definitely not a deal breaker for me to getting the Pre. I have the iPhone and it does have the capability of doing this, but till this day I still haven't used it (except for that one time to see if it actually works). Now, if you're on the phone with your nagging girlfriend/wife and you just want to do something else while she's blahing away this might be a huge plus. And vice versa, to be fair. Now, if you're saying that you want to use it for work, I hardly doubt that. I'm a CEO of middle sized company (about 150 employees) and if I knew one of my employees was on the phone with me and surfing the web while I was talking to him/her I would fire him/her immediately. And even if he wasn't talking to me and talking to a customer, that's even worse.
The Treo Pro doesn't use VOIP. That was a rumor that has since been proven otherwise.
I'll address the "betting that one out of 1000 would use it" segment of your post.
I would use this feature at least once a month on average. My father has just turned 70, but still runs the family business, which requires him to come to Atlanta quarterly. Over and above that, he and my mother come to visit regularly to see their grandchild. Almost every time they visit, my father wants to check out a new restaurant, and we end up talking on the phone while I search the 'net for suggestions to run past him. It would really save me time to be able to put the phone on speaker and talk while I do this, wherever I am, rather than having to cram it into the end of the day as I'm doing now.
My time is valuable, as I'm sure yours is, and while I wouldn't use the feature daily, I would use it often enough to consider its lack to be a drawback. Not enough to keep me from getting a Pre, but something I'd really like to see changed.
If they can do it on the Treo Pro why can't they do it on this??
when the instinct came out there was a similar problem, but some people were able to figure out how to change the settings of the device through logging in with the MLS number and changing the settings to interrupt data when a call comes in...
(#SETTINGS## i think it was...or something along those lines)
Would this not be possible with the pre for some reason?
@Informed
The limitation is that EVDO doesn't support circuit switched and packet switched data at the same time. Voice is traditionally delivered over circuit switched data. Sure, if you make voice go over packet data then yes, you technically can do voice and data simultaneously. But that's like saying, "I can do data and data at the same time!" (whooopee)
VOIP over my cable modem (Vonage) isn't exactly stellar, so I can't imagine it working very well over current 3G cellular networks. Maybe when 4G arrives it will be doable.
Obviously you have neglected to click on the link I provided, here is the link for you:
http://www.qualcomm.com/news/releases/2006/060607_successfully_demonstra...
Here is similar info:
http://www.evdoinfo.com/content/view/756/64/
By the way, VOIP on any cable network will not be that good, especially if the Cable signal is part Analog. Yesterday I realized that I have a client who uses Sprints QChat devices, all this time I thought his company was using the traditional Motorola Nextel phones. The signal and voice quality are very clear. If my memory serves me correctly, evdoinfo tested Vonage over EVDO Rev-A, they were impressed.
While simultaneous voice and data would be nice, Pre lacking the ability is not a big deal to me. I've been under that limitation for the better part of a decade and it's never been a problem.
@Informed
That article you keep linking to in no way disproves or discredits what I said. Rev A can do packet data or it can do circuit switched data. It can't do both at the same time.
As for quality, I'll believe when I see it. (hear it) The article was written by Qualcomm, so I'm sure the field tests were a smashing success. (rolling eyes)
Long term there's no doubt that all the wireless carriers will probably move to voip, but I don't think the network capacity is there yet. Again, I think we'll see it with 4G but not with the current 3G networks.
GPRS/EDGE which i used on my t-mobile treo 180 and 600 had the same limitiation so i've occasionally run into it for years. i've found it slightly more robust under CDMA in that short calls don't kick me out of an IRC chat room.
unfortunately buying a european pre is not a very likely option. they use different frequencies for their umts( 850mhz for AT&T, 1700 for t-mobile, and 2100 for europe), and unless palm explicitly adds a US frequency to the phone it's not going to work here, so it's going to fall back to GPRS/EDGE and you still won't be able to have data and voice simultaneously
"Let me look it up and I'll call you back..." sigh
I feel Palm is taking a page from Apple's business handbook and not making the Pre accessible to all markets, at first. If Palm released a GSM unlocked Pre (or even a unlocked CDMA), Sprint nor Vodafone will not be able to sell any. I can assure both Sprint and Vodafone has paid some good money to Palm so they will have the exclusive rights to it. Whether you like it or not, this is good business tactics.
With Sprint's roll out of the new 4G network, Sprint's system should have the capabilities to be able to do simultaneous data and voice... right?
I want to be on a phone call, surfing the web, while driving, eating a Big Mac, and listening to my ipod.
Come on Sprint!!!
I wouldn't buy a phone that didn't support GSM anyway so this affects me not at all.
I think the real question here is not whether you would be able to access an actual webpage during a call, but more so, if the calendar and contacts applications store their data internally or if they always need web access to work. This could mean that you couldn't answer questions about your calendar while you were on a call. That would be very unfortunate for people who gets lots of calls about their work availability and rely on their smartphone to have the answer. (that would be me of course...)
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