A thread in our TreoCentral forums points to a very interesting discussion on the lack of microSD on the Palm Pre. Forum member nlowhor found the discussion over at a Facebook discussion group. The Official Palm Blog posted a profile this week on Matt Crowley, a Palm Product Manager. At the end of the article, there is a link to a Facebook discussion board. Matt is answering questions there, and one of the questions asked was 'why the Palm Pre doesn't have expanded storage/a microSD slot'.
Matt responds:
‘Design’ was the highest goal on the Palm Pre project. The phone has to look and function great in the hand and up against the face on a call. The decision to include or not include expandable storage is an easy one when design is the highest priority. The physical size of the device would have been compromised if we added another physical component to Pre. Just a millimeter can seriously impact the curvature of the design in a way that minimizes the design intent. We wanted to maintain a slick curved slider design without building out too much thickness. When you look at the two parts of the product and see how thin they really are, you may be amazed that we were able to fit everything in. And yes, all the stuff does fit.
The other advantage of embedded memory is that you have a large amount of storage out of the box for media and files. Including 8GBs of storage on the phone is a large amount of storage for many people, but not all. Yes, not all. We know that not everyone will be happy, but that is one of many decisions that needs to be made and the product goals help define these decisions.
Matt adds that "The Internet is a BIG microSD card". He talks about "Synergy" and how you can pull content to your device over the air. Palm talked about Synergy in their Pre demonstration at CES and how great it is to not have to worry about tracking multiple calendars, contacts and messaging applications because the Pre syncs calendar and contacts data to the cloud.
Of course there is an interesting discussion going on in our forums regarding Matt Crowley's responses.
For example, forum member jmg_P1OS21 says:
I have a 16GB SHDC and I only ever have less than 1GB (if that) ever free...
no room for a MicroSD? Where will they find the room for a SIM card on a GSM Pre?
(I would not care if it's underneath the battery, it would be a PITA and NOT ideal in such a nicely thought out Pre design though...)
And forum member schnoid responds to jmg_P1OS21's post:
That's exactly what I was thinking! microSD is soooo small and it could fit in a quarter the space of a sim card. For all i care, they could include microSD on the CDMA model and not include it on the GSM model. If someone really needs microSD they can go to sprint. I'm still whole heartily think that Palm left out for the same reason iphone does. They're banking on the fact that people will buy a 16GB, 32GB, etc model of the same phone. Sure it might be a good marketing scheme, but its really annoying for those of us that have come to really appreciate a sd/miniSD/microSD slot on our phones. Please palm, if you read this, don't turn into apple! I think the Pre will be revolutionary but there is still so much you'll be able to do for future phones like video conferencing.
Forum member Gameboy70 says:
I remember an interview with Jeff Hawkins talking about designing smartphones for multiple carriers. One of the chief design guidelines is that devices look and feel the same whether they're GSM or CDMA. The innards of the GSM and CDMA versions can be radically different. As long as they have the same exterior and specs, the carriers are happy.
In other words, Palm might have been able to put the microSD slot in the CDMA version but not the GSM one, due to the SIM card requirement. If that's true, the GSM version determined the size of the CDMA version, but Palm chose to omit the microSD slot on both platforms for consistency's sake.
I have an SD card in all of my Palm smartphones but I don't really have much on any of them. I have a few songs on a couple of the cards and a backup program on one of them. I don't watch movies on my Palm smartphones, but use my iPhone for that activity. The main reason that I chose the 16GB iPhone 3G version was so I'd have room for TV shows and movies from iTunes. As to the Palm Pre not having a microSD card slot, I'm not too concerned. For my usage, the included 8GB is plenty enough space. I can certainly understand the concerns of other Palm smartphone users though, especially those who say that they use almost all of their 8GB and 16GB storage on their cards.
Anyway, you can read more comments in this TreoCentral forum thread, and you can read the full Facebook discussion here.
Let us know what you think about the Pre not having a microSD card slot and what you think about Matt Crowley's response.
Comments
I do not understand the need for an SD card, If someone is hoping the Pre will substitute a MP3/Media player then the Pre is not for them. 8gb is plenty enough especially when you factor in that most folks do not listen to music or watch movies on their phones. I have many friends that have the iphone I have yet to see any of them use it as a media device.
It would be a very nice addition, I think all the arguments are valid but it is not a big deal for me. But I am not everyone else, so I can see why a lot of people would like more memory. Hopefully its easy to transfer files on and off of here and maybe not become such a big deal.
one thing i still dont understand is , how is one suppose to upload all his content (music,videos, pics) from the PC to the PRE ?
and i have the 8Gb Iphone and its plenty for all my needs (3gb of music ) 3 gb of videos/shows and the rest for photos
Dont see why 8Gb Pre would be a problem ?
The Pre will act as a mass storage device when connected to a PC via the microUSB port. You can transfer music/media/files etc, back and forth.
I agree that a Pre won't replace a media device with substantially greater capacity. That doesn't mean people don't use it for media. Some people will use a Pre (or an iPhone, or whatever other phone) as a media device so as to only carry one thing. Anecdotally saying "I don't know anyone who uses it that way" only refers to the people you know and what you know of their usage. If someone only uses it for media occasionally when you're not around and you don't have reason to ask, how will you know? And that doesn't even address people's usage in other cities or countries.
My take before CES: I was hoping Palm would unveil something I would want to get that would be my primary media device along with everything else it would do. Now I'm planning to get a Pre (though I'd rather it had microSDHC). I'm also still working out whether the Pre or something else will be my primary media device.
Re uploading--the Pre will show up as a mass storage device when plugged in by USB. Maybe it's even possible to do transfers by Bluetooth or WiFi. So software like Winamp will probably see it and let you transfer that way.
I can see why some people would want / need a microSD card slot. It would be nice. Maybe Palm can include it in the next model that uses WebOS.
I use a Centro with a 4GB microSD card. I have music, lots of MS Office files (I use MS Synctoy and use the Centro to keep my files at work and at home in sync. I use card reader to turn it into a USB drive) and I still have room. I use TCPMP to covert movies and I'll put one on the card. I still have plenty of room. 8GB is plenty for me, but I do know people who could fill 8GB very quickly.
I love the fact that the Pre will be like the LifeDrive and can be used as a flash memory drive on the computer.
The other thing I would love to see on the Pre is the Notes function. Does it work like Memos does? I use Memos for tons of things and hope the new feature in WebOS works the same.
I've never ripped a DVD to play on a portable device so I have no idea how much capacity is needed for a 90 minute movie... iIs there a rule of thumb that can be applied here?
we'll, i have on my treo 680 and centro twice a 16GB (micro)SD card and yess, it's full!
So I will miss the slot, yess!
But, i love the designe and that should stay that way!
If this is the main goal Palm want, than it has to be...
It looks great, it will be great! ;o)
Ugh. I wanted to play "buzzword bingo" with the Palm guy's explanation. Basically he's saying that style was more important than substance. As usual.
I'm guessing the Pre is the "Centro" version low-end of these new OS phones. They'll paint releases pretty colors every few months, but will have the lousy battery and no expansion. Then after they suck the early adopters into 2-year contracts, they'll bring out a better one with more memory, expansion, and a decent battery.
No local backup or expansion = fail.
I'm sorry, but I don't believe this at all. Palm, you could have fit a micro SD card under the battery if you really wanted to, but instead you decided it would be better to do in a later Web OS phone. Which is totally understandable, but please stop lying to the general public saying that it was a "design choice". Anyone who knows anything about tech knows this is totally BS, and if you don't want to admit it then so be it, but we tech savvy people know the truth, and we are calling BS on this one.
I want removable storage for local backup/restore. The cloud won't help me restore a hosed contacts DB if I'm in an area with no signal. What if the device goes into an endless reboot loop due to bad software? How do I get online to restore it? I can't tell you how many times local backups to SD have saved me.
Another problem for me is backing up to the cloud (I'm SO sick of that word) will put me at my data plan cap quicker than I care to think about. I'm sure if I'm willing to give Sprint a bigger check than I give my mortgage holder each month I can get a high enough cap, but I hate being forced to use these methods. Too much of my data is too important and/or private to toss around in public reach.
They can fit it. We're not talking CF or SD here, it's microSD... If it doesn't require a motor to spin it up, then they can fir it in the phone - even if it added slightly to a dimension.
Add me to the many who want a removable storage option. I have 16 GB of SDHC storage on my T|X (thanks to Dmitry Grinberg's PowerSDHC driver), and I have no desire to go backwards. I have also been saved more than once by my daily backup-to-SD-card, and don't want to lose *that* feature either.
I'm hoping that Palm will announce a second WebOS device, for power users like us, sooner rather than later. And that *all of them* support Bluetooth keyboards! {ProfJonathan}
I agree that most people don't use their phones for media applications when other devices target this application nicely. However, the cell phone in general is picking up a larger and larger percentage of the digital camera market. Depending on how easily we can transfer files/pictures from the Pre to the PC will be a huge factor when considering the Pre.
If easily done, fill the 8GB up and then transfer to other storage media. If not so easily done, the lack of an SD Card will be a noticeable weakness in the device. Obviously, each person has a different need for storage on their phones. I'd agrue the majority of us will be just fine with 8GB (assuming we have an easy way of transfer media from it to an alternate storage device).
The over-obsession with "slim" in phones just makes no sense to me. I can stick a Treo 755 in my front jeans pocket just fine, and frankly I'd rather they had made it a little larger so it would accommodate a larger battery. I want to USE it - not just look at it or show it off.
I have an iTouch, nearly an identical size to the iPhone. I can tell you quite confidently that it's MUCH slimmer than the Treo, and I can also report that as pretty as it looks it is HELL on the hands after a few minutes of trying to type. It's just not designed to fit into an adult's (or child's) hand at all, the "slim" form is a non-ergonomic PITA to hold.
Now Palm is probably just being reactionary here - they have a nasty habit of cheaping out with memory, flash slots and other features and then coming up with a BS excuse of why they did it. Fine. But if this Pre pig is as tiny as an iPhone then that's one more strike against it, I'd buy a fat silicone case to encapsulate it so my tendons don't rupture in agony.
Sometimes thin is NOT in - if all it would have added was one millimeter, Palm has chosen style over substance yet again.
I agree with you on much of this. I remember years ago in college one of my professors was talking to us about the human factors that prevents making technology too small. I also have a Treo 755p and I put it in my front pant pocket all the time. I have not issues with it there.
I did play with the iPhone and while I loved how sleek it was, it didn't feel comfortable in my hand (though it would have been much more comfortable in my pant pocket then the Treo).
Anyway, judging from the vids I've seen of the Pre, it does not seem as thin as the iPhone, which should make it a bit more ergonomic.
For the iPhone lovers out this, do not take this as iPhone bashing. The iPhone seems to do what it does very well in most cases. It does have it's problems (like any other device) however. And comfort in the hand, at least for me, is one area where it does not work as well as one would think.
i think palm should have made a micro sd slot due to the fact that like myself have pictures saved on to my memory card that i want 2 use on any phone i may have. like as my background that i cant just take the picture all over again
so how am i suppose to get those same pictures that are on my memory card on to this phone with no microSD??????
Couldn't you just use USB to transfer them if you have a card reader on your computer? If not, you can email them to yourself. There are so many ways to do this that it seems like a non-issue when you're talking about a few pictures.
Now if you have more than 8GB of pics/vids/music, that's an issue since you won't have the room. But making an issue out of transferring a few photos seems...forced.
i dont have an card reader on my cpu and im not sure if i can bluetooth the pics from my old phone to the pre
So what about email or wifi? I'm not arguing that this is ideal in any way...I just think it's unreasonable for people to think that a company can make a product that has every single feature that every single person wants. It's hard enough to do this with a full sized computer; so how much more difficult is it with a device this small?
People keep saying "oh but the microSD is so small, Palm could have fit it in". But what about the actual reader for the microSD? What about everything else that must be modified to "fit this in"? How would that affect the cost of the phone?
Like you, I have some media on other cards. Some I have on a regular 1GB SD card. So should I argue that Palm should have included a standard SD slot as well? What about the miniSD I use in my Treo 755p? Should I demand that as well? Can you imagine how the Pre would look if it supported...EVERYTHING?
Since it is supposed to support wifi and bluetooth, I'm sure there is a way to transfer files from your current format to the Pre.
My advice to you is to get the cheapest (used if possible) card reader you can find and transfer your files that way? Again, it's not ideal, but your particular issue is easier solved than those who are trying to figure out what to do with their media collection that is larger than 8GB.
There are apps for a Treo/Centro to get the memory card to show up when you plug in the cable. IIRC, at least one of them is free or has a free trial, which would be enough to transfer pics to the PC.
Bluetooth will most likely work, too.
personally, I dont believe the official explanation from the Palm rep above, it sounds like a tortured rationalization. I wonder if it isnt a DRM type reason, making it difficult for the user to copy media files to/from the device, thus making it easier to sell/license to media service providers.
Palm Pre and Now Pixi is a huge disapintement for me.
Main reason I have to stay with older Palm phone for now is:
I have been using my phone to upload pictures directly to web and email, pictures taken by my 10MP and 15MP camera and than just transferring them to phone via MicroSD card without the need of PC when traveling.
If Palm continues on this road without the MicroSD, they will loose another group of clients like me and my friends to HTC or other companies which are capable of building slick phones with keyboard touchscreen and microSD port!!!
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