Many developers are hoping to leverage Palm’s webOS App Catalog for financial gain much like has been done on the iPhone App Store. With a significantly smaller install base than the iPhone, webOS developers do have a bit of ways to go to catch up with their iPhone brethren. But let it not be said that it is impossible to make money in the App Catalog.
We at PreCentral were curious how much money has been made from the App Catalog. The App Catalog does not automatically display download counts, even though the information is still available. Thankfully, the folks at WebOS Internals whipped up a patch that makes those numbers visible, and they are telling.
We did not compute a complete downloads and revenue figure for all apps (we just don’t have the patience needed to check the 100+ paid apps), instead we focused on apps that had netted more than 1,000 downloads. In the land of paid webOS apps, that amounts to 33 apps, ranging between $0.99 and $4.99. All told, we can safely say that the App Catalog has made webOS developers more than $100,000 after Palm’s 30% cut.
The most downloaded paid app was Tweed at $1.99, with 4946 downloads as of Wednesday evening. Those 4,946 downloads amount to $6,889 for developer Pivotal Labs.
The most valuable app so far, however, is Absolute Fitness. With a download count of 3,498 and a price of $4.99, sales of Absolute Fitness have netted developer Aqua Eagle $12,218. The next closest app in terms of revenue is Tweed, followed by Word Whirl, which has made $6,710 for SacherSoft.
The star ratings in the App Catalog appear to have little appreciable impact on app sales, so long as the rating isn’t below 2.5 stars. Only three paid apps with two or fewer stars have managed more than 1,000 downloads, but none of those have brought more than $1,000 to their developers.
Much discussion has been had about a “sweet spot” for paid webOS apps, with most developers hoping to avoid the $0.99 standard that has plagued the iPhone App Store. We can’t say with any certainty at this point - the App Catalog is still in beta, after all - but it appears that the sweet spot for strong-selling quality webOS apps has settled at $1.99. Even so, users seem to have little issue with apps that cost more than that; nearly a third of the apps surveyed were priced higher than $1.99.
Interestingly, webOS users also appear to be of the savvy variety, with UltraLingua’s fifteen overpriced dictionary/translator apps (ranging from $14.99 to $49.99) totaling just 68 downloads, with a grand total of only $948 in revenue.
We should also note that the App Catalog's download numbers are total downloads, including users that have downloaded an update for an app they already purchased. For practical purposes, we can't even think about filtering those out, but suffice to say the numbers we're reporting are likely higher than the actual count.
How about Palm’s 30% cut? It’s netted them approximately $43,000. If Palm’s cost scales are anything like Apple’s, most if not all of that forty-three grand is going towards server costs. Palm is first and foremost a hardware and OS provider - the App Catalog exists primarily as a means to drive device sales.
Comments
I bet the developers would be getting even more if there wasn't this app limit. I for one haven't purchased a single app because of it.
obviously they're not getting any help from people like you. your punishing the developers for a policy that affects other platforms like android? i bet developers would be getting even more if there weren't Pre/Pixi owners like you.
what do you want him to do buy a game he can't download? is that even possible?
ebernal718, if you're an android "winner" you're not helping either. Currently, there are more than three standards of Android running and a developer has to keep coming back and revising their work trying to get/keep them compatiable across the platform. But thanks for stopping in. Isn't your O/S keeping you entertained?
Pre owner since june 6 actually but thanks for assuming. i bring up android because they have the same situation with their apps.
I don't think what you meant, is what you wrote.
There is a lot of hostile finger pointing at pre and pixi owners in your not so elegant prose, like pre and pixi owners made the policy and are punishing developers.
Yeah what an ass hole. Not buying apps because of a limit.
totally - PALM we need this APP LIMIT crap fixed STAT!!
sighhhh, you missed the last few lines. It is an OS system first. Apps come later. I don't have an app limit because I installed a patch. Although, I could say get more involved in your phone and get the patch, I could also say that Palm should get off its but and do something about it themselves. Its a catch 22. All I know to say is get the patch,....sorry. You can catch me on the message boards in Preload under the name Nofiguru
Just keep things a bit in perspective. It's doubtfull that more than 1% of the Pre/Pixi owners know about this limit, and experiencing it... well perhaps 0,1% if the forementioned?!
I loaded a lot on my Pre, no problems. And looking at the download numbers, well that's what kind of dictates the percentage figures above.
Yes, this limit needs to be removed, better, the way it appears needs to change so that the user can control it, and can know in advance.
Just some harsh reality: there will always be a limit... (unless infinite memory is developed...).
Unfortunately the attitude here at Precentral has shifted a litte toards 'complaining just to complain'. Unfortunately the editors are also affected...
Fix the bloddy app limit and watch these number fly. Enough said.
Agreed. I'd buy more apps but when I hit the download button and it says sorry not enough room what can I do? If the Beta tag is coming off next month then I believe this issue needs to be on the top of the list for the next update.
nice observation i was always interested in how developers are making the dough....
Nice analysis Derek. I think you are right to say Palm is in it for the O/S and hardware sales.However, I think they recognize that down the road, the revenue will likely be focused on content so the App store is an expense (investment) for now, but if the webOS universe hits its potential, should become the heart of their revenue stream. Content has minimal risk with no inventory, and upgrading serves as demand increases, is the kind of expense one likes to have.
Sorry, but the analysis is completely flawed since app updates *also* add to the download count. These are not total downloads, so "count * price * 0.70" is, depending on the number of updates for a given app, totally inflated.
Predogs, yes, but, FIRST, before any of us stay with the PRE, and any of potential buyers out there, decide to buy the Pre BECAUSE of apps in any serious fashion (enough to make money for developers and Palm) Palm first has to bring the PRE up to the "Smart"phone level, which means, having the basic funcionalities we all come to expect from a smartphone, not to mention working properly. Assuming they do, which i highly doubt it, based on past and current developments, they would still need killer apps. But killer apps don't come from developers that can't make money because we can't download their apps cause stupid Palm can't fix it, can't give a sht about the developers, why should they care about making Palm apps? Palm doesn't have a chance making it to the degree necessary: they continue to make incredibly stupid mistakes that no Palm of the past would have thought of making even in their worst nightmares. Old Palm? Sure no problem. But the new Palm? No way. Two different animals. The former, smart, intuitive. The latter, pretentious. I have told everyone i know, don't buy the Pre, get the latest Treo or an iPhone. I am only stuck for the 2 year contract. Otherwise, I would be out of here. I never had to use ONE patch when I had my Treo 650. Never. It was great from the beginning, and it only got better when their killer apps showed up. I paid gladly for them too. They were worth it. Great smartphone, great apps. We can't say the same about coughing patchy-Pre, can we?
Your statement is uneducated. The iPhone which arguably re-invented the app store can barely be caled a "smart" phone. It's missing basic features that have been in smart phones for ages; heck they just recently added video and SMS. Darn basic stuff if you ask me. Feature-wise; the iPhone is years behind; yet it's the clear BIGGEST app-store.
I don't know of a single platform that has quality apps today honestly. The iPhone makes people believe that is the case; but most apps are fart apps and the few serious one are on pretty much every platform out there already because the publishing houses simply port their franchises over to every other devices; whoop de doo.
I do agree that the 2 Palms are completely different however. Don't go in expecting the same thing. But I'd argue that it's a good thing. There's a reason Palm was getting gutted in market shares. Something the Pre reversed it sounds like.
you said poopies
so much anger....I think someone needs a hug
cale, I was just addressing the stategy of pushing the app store as a future revenue stream. I agree totally that "new Palm" (I call them Orange, step brother of Apple), slaughtered old Palm's loyalty and momentum, making webOS and Pre, totally undeveloped rookies in a competitive market place.
Personally, I see "Orange" as a pending failure, with the only hope of a future depending on a friendly acquisition that can insert webOS into a budget large enough to develop the webOS concept in months rather than years. That merger has to happen soon, or webOS will go the way of Amiga or Betamax. Everyday that goes buy, without a synergistic merger, the odds get longer for Orange to survive.
Limit to downloads is limit to sales is limit to cash on hand is limit to R&D, which means stagnation.
The App limit being fixed and rolling out paid apps are two imminent steps that should change the scene in a big way I hope...
how many downloads does pandora have?
760,943
How come Pandora is free?
Because the developer made it free. Its a app to boost the power of the Pre/Pixi so doubt it was there for palm for make app money.
The count including updates isn't cool. For apps that have been updated frequently, that is going to grossly over state their income from the sales. :( I wonder if they could track that separately some how.
do you guys know how to install the patch?
http://install.preware.org
What about apps like PocketMirror or the Missing Sync. With Pricetags of 29.95 and 39.95, they must be doing alright. I would be interested in their numbers.
These sales are outside of the catalog, so while regular catalog app estimates are accurate +/- 50%, may people could have downloaded the free clients for these and not purchased the desktop software. Same thing for Classic.
and what about accuweather? i think that's the most downloaded app?
where do i find ways to develop sommething. i wanna make money
http://developer.palm.com
It will be interesting to track the change in the numbers when the GSM Pre gets paid apps.
Unfortunately, these counts are downloads (including updates) and not purchases. Our incomes will be FAR less than displayed here.
Do you atleast know your exact numbers Sacher?
The developers have no idea what are numbers are yet. I'm pretty sure mine are less than 2/3 of the downloads. I also don't know how many I gave away when the catalog was automatically upgrading the homebrew version.
Yes, these numbers are probably grossly inaccurate. Each update to an app ends up adding to the download count. Not exactly doubling each time, but I'm sure it's significant.
Wobble Words has been well received, and I think more so since I adjusted the price. I'd love to be able to get accurate counts so I can better gauge response to updates and promotional efforts.
Best estimates so far tell me the numbers so far a much lower than I'd hoped (for all paid apps, not just mine), but I'm hanging in there. I believe in the platform and Palm as a company, so let's see how it goes.
Three things I'm anticipating are: increase in the app limit (or, heck, why have that partition, Palm folks?), proper reports for developers, and the official post-beta launch of the App Catalog.
I love Wobble Word :) Very well done imo. I hope for you that the platform picks up more so that you can develop more great apps for it. I suppose you have to consider that something like the iPhone is actually shipping in 70+ countries while Palm is only shipping in roughly 5. That has got to have some impact on the sheer number of devices that you can reach. I would presume that this should grow over time and generally the games that have the most traffic will be the ones that most people will initially gravitate towards.
I love how every time the App Catalog is mentioned, a bunch of people post their complaints about the app limit. I'm pretty sure everyone is aware by now.
If you want to complain, complain to Palm. Send Palm a complaint through their suggestion form. Complaining to the people of PreCentral most likely won't do squat for you.
The app limit is extremely relevant in this case, because it's keeping a lot of early adopter folks away from the app store. Early adopters also tend to be very vocal, so the big message right now outside out bubble is "the Pre is OK, but there aren't many apps, and you won't be able to install many in any case because of tiny limit Palm put on the device".
Also, 1,000 developers screaming for something don't have nearly the weight of 100,000 users, even in a public forum. If anything, opening up the issue escalates it even more for Palm, because it's become a public problem that obviously needs to be addressed instead of a bunch of support "suggestion" tickets.
The phones greatest resources are not yet developed. Palm will need to solidify that foundation before we get apps that go beyond games or hobbyist best efforts. Most (certainly not all) of what we seen so fall into about a dozen app categories and function more as GUI's and games than device-transforming applications. At the moment, I'd say Palm and Sprint are the only ones that can really develop power-apps unless other companies are working as technical partners to develop the untapped resources yet to see the light of day in the Pre's innards.
Give me the option for Amex and I'll buy some apps.
AMEX historically charges extremely high fees compared to VISA/Mastercard. They own everything; not just the transaction; so they naturally charge around 5% while MC/Visa can be around half that. It's significant. I suppose you have to consider that in Palm's bottom line. They may take a cut out of the sale; but 2-3% goes to the card network. The rest probably goes to their servers. At the end of the day; they probably don't really make a profit out of it.
Probably not worth signing a contract with Amex to pick up 30% of a .99 or 1.99 transaction. Asside from higher commissions, Amex is also slow to deliver funds compared to the bank card services.
Amex is a pretty bad deal for providers. It doesn't lend itself well to small purchase amounts.
Absolute Fitness' numbers are exaggerated greatly due to updates generating more downloads. They are one of the top running apps, but many more are right behind them.
I agree with others here. They will make a lot more money if they fix the VAR space limitation. I have purchased a few apps but am limiting them until I can actually install more.
after finally learning to install and use homebrewed app limit killer (terminal + mvapp), i already spent 20 bucks this week alone in app catalog...i'm sure there are several other users like me who are just as careless with money and itching to give it away to palm/developers but have been unable to because of the app limit (took me weeks/months before finally deciding to learn and install homebrew)
so I was updating some patches on my wifes pre the other day and I asked her why she hadn't updated or downloaded some free and good apps "I haven't been to the app store in months" if its not on homebrew I don't bother...I did remind her I (well I didn't the people at webos internals did) fix the app limit. She said, yeah , forgot about that.
basically I have about 20$ in paid apps and she has 0 because of the app limit. So palm is definitely losing out as are the devs. That said, keep making em because you have time to work out the bugs before it goes viral.
i haven't bought any yet. the app limit isn't stopping me now. The apps available are just not my cup of tea.
The apps for the Pre have failed to inspire me. Not one utility that I would want. No productivity suites. Documents To Go is supposedly targeted for early 2010 and I'll part with my cash for that application.
NewsRoom and Dealert are actually pretty good. I use them both every day now and LOVE them both.
These are more GUI's than device transforming applications. Shortcuts and interfaces that smooth what you can already get on the mobile web. Palm needs power apps, that's what puts the Treo ahead of the iPhone and Pre. Tether progreams, VNC's, Docs to Go, Sling, Lexis,...applications that may or may not use the web, but dont' simply repackage it.
what about Photo Dialer? I show 132,611 downloads... At 1.99, that's a lot of dough! But, wasn't that app also a free app at some point? So that would totally skew the numbers! Anyway, Quick Contacts is a much better apps but shows only 1800 downloads at 2.99... Of course, there are some (like myself) who was happy to donate $5 to that developer during its homebrew days,so I have never downloaded the App Catalog version
This and many other currently Pay apps were released as Free for a while. Basically, the download numbers don't mean much.
These numbers are even lower than I expected. I don't feel so bad now about delaying the app I was working on for more lucrative immediate work. Some day I may get back to it, but it may not be worth it at this point.
Regardless of whether or not these download are 100% actual sales or 50% actual sales, none of these figures are enough to attract much attention from software companies. $100K combined revenue for all of the developers in the App Catalog? That's not even enough to get two programmers together to work on a project for a year. Someone would really have to be convinced that WebOS was going to take off in a major way to invest any money in a software project right now.
I think that is the point of this article. Derek should know better, PreCentral is not a noob when it comes to these things. App sales are a LOT lower than this article tries to claim.
I know you want to attract attention Derek. Pre needs more apps, and thus more developer's. But please, do not outright mislead.
My app has done a little bit over $4,000 in the first month (~900 sales), after taking out Palm's cut. Not bad for 1 month, but that is the high time of it's life. It's decent for a freelance programmer, but not enough to sustain a professional development company.
How can anyone make the claim that an app is at/past the high time of its life at this stage? The article is premature for numerous reasons:
The numbers are effectively a stab in the dark
Paid apps are limited to the United States only
There is a known app limit preventing downloads
Initial launch for a new device is an excellent time for first mover exposure for a developer. That coupled with the fact that interest in an app tends to decline over time makes the claim fairly reasonable.
How is it reasonable when only a single region has access to paid apps and there is an app limit restriction? You have failed to address those two key points.
By then, new apps will have pushed initial launch paid apps in the US down the list. Also, when the app limit lifts, same thing. Exactly how quickly interest decays is obviously a factor, and there will be the occasional "spike" cases, but every product has a life cycle. Mobile apps tend to peak relatively early, and sales decay over time. In short, today's hot app in these limited situations is most likely not going to be the hot app when these limits lift. This makes his point statistically valid in my mind, so I agree to a certain extent.
You are talking about a model that does not take into account the two key factors mentioned previously making it invalid. If an app is good enough and maintained enough then it will still generate sales when the app limit is removed and when paid apps are opened up beyond the US. To make claims about the life cycle of an app at this stage is being disingenuous at best.
Teso, you are right. We will see an infusion when it goes global and to other carriers.
But the life cycle in general still exists (even with other carriers and countries). This cannot be worked-around. You will see the initial launch be the high point of it's career. Not that it will die off, but it will fade substantially. My paid app went from 500 sales in the first 2 weeks to 20 a day in week 3, then 10 a day in week 4. An update at end of week 4 attracted a lot of new customers, but nothing like the initial launch. Maybe jumped it back up to 50/60 in the first week of the update. Will die off from there (and I can send you numbers once I have them). Even with continual development, it can only do so much to attract new customers.
Maybe I am wrong and your argument is to wait for other carriers and countries to see if the app catalog will generate substantial revenue?
I'd agree with speculative, but disingenuous? Do you even know the meaning of that word? I'm simply drawing comparisons with apps on other platforms. Explain to me how I'm "lacking in candor or sincerity" with my statements.
I'll second the motions. Mobile apps are at their prime only when first released. That's why iPhone devs clamour for that first month. After that, they decay down and down on the list of apps.
Yes, we can get a boost when it launches in Canada, Spain, Germany, etc, but us early developer's will be down on the list.
Yes, we can get a boost from the app limit removal, but how many early adopters of the Pre will move on and not even go through the catalog? They may have seen our apps in the beginning, thought it was nice, but nope, no install. How many will actually go back? Unless it's a critical need, they generally will not.
Some will stay in there. They are just that important. I wish I had stats on other apps, but mine have actually done fairly well in daily purchases (~10-20 per day). That too will drop significantly when I actually get some competition for my app (and I KNOW it is coming, just not sure when).
See above.
Yah; I agree it's very small. At the same time; it's REALLY hard to do good on the iPhone's app store; because there SO MUCH noise int he store that your app basically remains unseen by most people.
In other words; you can't really sell more in the Apple store than you can on the Palm store (different problems obviously), but problems none-the-less. The only difference is that if you really have the marketting power to slide high in the Apple store; you can expect some reasonable profits.
I think another effect of this is the fact that most apps are DIRT chea. It takes a shitload of customers to make a serious lump of money at 3$/pop.
how about ranking the top (10) games?
Again, the download count includes all downloads. This includes existing users downloading an update, and in some cases includes numbers when an app was released free. Free downloads vs. paid alone would skew such a comparison so much as to make a top 10 based on these numbers grossly inaccurate.
if you're including updates that's seriously a flawed number. There are things updated five and six times. if it's got 1000 downloads and everyone updates 3 times it will read like it has 3000 downloads?
i will say i did something similar to itunes minus an in depth analysis look at price but it was very interesting look at what's selling, what's free, what's the most profitable. Interestingly, the biggest sellers and downloaded free or paid apps where games. By a long way. The most profitable where games and there was a navigation one thrown in. And one thing that stood out was as a category generally entertainment (music, media, video, photo, social networking) was really the bulk of the top sellers and downloaders. All of which i find interesting and problematic from a Palm perspective because Gaming is something they've shown they are not interested in. Yet it makes the most money. And it showed me that other then making phone calls the phone is less about stuff like docs to go or productivity/workplace apps and way way way more about entertainment apps like games social networking music video etc. Which again is a bit problematic when palm chose not to have a robust facebook client, chose not to really have a stellar music player and chose not to have video in webos at launch.I think for as nice as webos is i think Palm, as to it's direction, lacks a lot of intelligent guidance as to what are some of the really important boxes to check off in the overall package that is webos and the pre. personally i think it's phone, email, music, video, photo, im, and the hot social networking platforms. I think you hit those out the park and you've got a block buster phone. WebOs does some ok but others not so good. But you can learn a lot about what consumers want buy what they are buying.
Close, but not quite right, in your first paragraph. Something with 1000 downloads and three updates may have, say, 2100 downloads. That is, making up reasonable numbers:
It depends on what fraction of your users started with the first release versus a later release, and on what fraction of the users religiously apply each update.
ok,ppl, it takes alot of balls for a company to just invent a new os, new phone, hell a new direction..... it takes time to sell a new idea, because ppl want to stay with what is comfortable. the icrap didnt start out this big. but now they seem to be the bar by wich everythingis compared. is it unfair ? maybe. as a pre owner i am thrilled with the wat the future brings. i am proud to be a part of something new and exciting. instead of following the masses. i for one will be rooted to my pre for as long as possible. i dont think any pre owner cares about wat the icrap app store has. we have a pre for a reason. a few tweaks here and there and were able to do alot with this phone. i applaude the devs.
and to the idiot who called us "oranges" .. go choke on an apple! we dont need or want "apple" lovers here any way.. this is a palm pre site ... leave it that way!
As a mobile developer, I have a few phones. I love my Pre *and* my iPhone. I do find the Pre is in my pocket more because I can keep email, calendar and twitter all running (plus, I like the calendar much more than iPhone's). The iPhone does not gracefully switch, so even though the individual apps are pretty zippy and some are quite amazing, I actually get to what I want faster on the Pre (also, Synergy is really, really good). Since the hardware is roughly equivalent, I'm looking forward to Palm opening up more access to us developers to make some more interesting apps. In any case, your point about it flat-out being a good device is well taken, and I totally agree. Drop the hate though, we're all gadget geeks here, even Android fans (a platform that after a few months of working with makes me cringe, visibly).
As someone who not only uses BOTH a Pre and an iPhone and carries BOTH EVERYDAY, I have to say that the existence of an app limit didn't surprise me, as my iPhone has one as well, but the VERY small number of apps allowed SHOCKED me, and I consider it appalling from a company like Palm, who should know better. I am a Palm user from day one--I still own a Pilot 1000! I have 5 other Palm handhelds--from the aformentioned Pilot to a Lifedrive and 7 previous Palm smartphones--6 Treos and a Centro. Palm FORCED me to iPhone with the danged WinMo on the Treos! Then they come up with something truly innovative in real Palm style with the Pre...and they f it up. If I had discovered the app limit before my 30 days was up I'd've dumped this and held out until it was working like a Palm smartphone should. Firthermore, that the app catalog does not in any way save your purchases so if your phone is damaged--or, as happened to me, was defective and is replaced, you get to repurchase your apps as well. Sure glad I got to pay $30 twice for Classic so I could use my many PalmOS apps, only to have Palm break it with updates. I've now spent $60 on an app that effectively crashes my Pre, perfectly consistently. At least removing it makes room for another app. @dbalmer--I guess it's a matter of taste and my not being a Windows user but I despise "Synergy." It's probably that my Macs are unsupported and "Missing Sync" is superbly unreliable, but since it can't sync consistently with my Mac I need it to quit trying. The mistakes and duplicates are driving me nuts. If it's in the same room with my Macbook for any time at all it tries to sync, f's it up, and I have to fix the calender. The resulting damage to my contacts I've long given up trying to fix. How do I turn it OFF and sync manually, or ,like my iPhone, not at all?
Please, also @dbalmer, don't read this as hate. I WANT TO LOVE THIS PHONE, but my rude introduction to the app limit when the phone simply refused any more REALLY was the straw, ya know?
AFAIK your purchases are remembered. My phone was bricked (remember to uninstall tweaks, folks), had to restore it, and still got all my apps without repurchasing. The app limit is probably the #1 gripe us power users have complained about, but I wonder how much of a blip that makes as far as total users. And yeah, the limit really shouldn't be there in the first place, especially such a small one.
Why would you have to pay twice for Classic?
lol, the homebrew app developers who take donations have probably crushed some of these numbers, i havent even opened my app catalog since the first week
Kind of a shame, really. There are some great apps in the Palm App Catalog. I don't think dissing the "official" app outlet is in any way helping the community or promoting the platform to new users.
What is also disappointing is that Canadians still do not have access to paid apps. I know there are tax issues, but there are businesses that can deal with that.
As for the rumour that it is the CRTC or Industry Canada - I don't buy that at least for most Apps. Bell Canada has lots of friends there if some political push is needed.
I very *much* would like to offer my paid apps outside the US. I'm really hoping Palm opens this up soon.
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