Does webOS need an iTunes-like Ecosystem to Survive?

I hate itunes with a passion of hatred from the most hated things that have ever been hated. The PRE is so appealing to so many of us i think simply because its what we wanted out of the iphone. Multitasking and freedom to do what we want. You want to change your battery go for it, you want to plug it into the computer and toss some random crap go for it. Everything that makes the iphone an apple product is why i cant stand it.

I personally hate itunes and how it setup to "sync" music. I like things like Winamp/XMMS and good old copy and paste for my music files.

I wonder if the Facebook application/integration could be the killer ap? Facebook's on almost all of the latest smartphones , but that Pre commercial set featuring the built-up homepage -- and the presence of Facebook personnel at the CES launch -- have me thinking Facebook may work a little better on the Pre than other devices...

I agree. I hate iTunes also. I hate how difficult apple makes it to transport anything bought on iTunes to another divice. There are so many other and cheaper options options out there that I threw my iPod away and now stay away from Apple products.

I'm also not a fan of iTunes. The killer app is the simple UI and ease of use multitasking on it.

Absolutely agree on that,
you know Apple just infects your system by putting and digging into your system. "I want everything surveilled and buy on iTunes!! *haha*". It just bothers me seeing Apple pricing up their devices, services and apps. It's like Microsoft having strict world-conquering rules (e.g. patents, ecological compatibility and so on).

Of course I was tempted to buy an Apple device because it is extremly fancy to do the "multitouch" thing and swipe and scroll through the menus, BUT Apple has failed building up an nice appearance to people that can see through their manianc PR / firm policy.

++++
By the way,--- I want my HSDPA / UMTS(3G) Pre!!!

Palm doesn't have an ecosystem but it will have a Geek-o-System(TM). I'll take credit for that one right here, anonymously. A Geek-o-System is what happens when you offer features rather than solutions. Features like Synergy, MultiTasking, gestures, cards, cloud sync, Touchstone - things that geeks need to improve their lives but regular people do not. Do you really think that normal people have a burning desire to do two things at once on their smartphone if one of them isn't listening to music?

I agree with the earlier commenter; Facebook, Twitter, and social networks still-to-come are the killer app for WebOS. But the original article has a good point that the problem is that Palm doesn't own any of that stuff. Maybe Palm has worked a deal with Facebook that Palm gets a penny for every friend you have...

Agree with the comments. Apple's ecosystem is more of a (monopoly) vendor lock in to me. Let's hope that the fact that the pre seems much more open (USB drive) than the iPhone is actually his advantage instead of the drawback.

apple/itunes can suck it!

I like having to use use copy and paste. William Van Winkle can eat a dick. He is so apple biased that it is sickening. Why does that guy even write up articles if they are garbage like the one linked here.

If he doesn't like it then he shouldn't get one. I don't think that a guy like that should be writing an article about the Pre or any device really. His complaining is like being kicked in the back of the seat by a little kid on a bus. Just annoying. What a tool!

Meta-question: Can the echo-chamber effect produce a clean, sharp, sophisticated set of facts approaching truth?

You could think of it as a metaphorical sonication of raw experience.

PALM FANBOIS UNITE! time to fight the isuck crowd.

bois^^... this is the wood / forest in French.

Yeah the PALM WOODS!!! Could be some real counter-argument to those pseudo-ecological iSuck devices!

iTunes is for the birds, not being able to do EVERYTHING wireless, thus having to hook up your device to a computer, is a pain in the butt. It is partly At&t's fault for the iphone being dependent on iTunes. At&t's network cannot handle the bandwidth.

Palm has been so secretive about the Palm Pre who's to say WHAT killer app or feature they're holding back. I've been a loyar Palm user for years and I think the Pre will be the phone we've all been waiting for. I hope so because I'm getting one as soon as it hits the stores!

The fact that Pre doesn't have to use iTunes is a huge win in my book.

Google "itunes sucks":
3,550,000 hits

Google "hate itunes":
21,800,000 hits

A lot of people would never get an iPhone because of iTunes. A lot of people will never get an iPhone because of AT&T.

I don't agree that Palm needs to knock it out of the park with the Pre. It just needs a solid double. Which it almost certainly will. It does need to deliver and be pretty damn solid. We don't need no stinkin' "storm".

Palm Treo et al did very well for many years in a smaller market (smartphones are groing like mad). They should do just fine in a bigger market.

The other thing that may be a Pre pluss - is the fact that the iPhone has kinda lost it "cool" factor. There was a time that the mullet was cool. There was a time when Crocs were cool. Apparently, there was even a time when men's capris were cool. :-)

All things like that pass.

I feel like NOT having an ecosystem is how the Pre will succeed. Being tied to a particular desktop platform, to me, is a liability.

WebOS is an ecosystem in and of itself. So no more being tied to my "home" computer or "work" computer because that's where my desktop app is...... my desktop app is now "everywhere".

Any JC Hutchins fans out there will get the Kilroy 2.0 "everywhere" bit.

I do think that this article raises several good points. One one hand, the Pre will lack a desktop application to make media syncing "just work". The iPhone excels in that matter since it basically takes the iPod's functionality and extends it.
However, the iPhone REQUIRES iTunes, and theirein lies a pretty major flaw. Without iTunes you are essentially dead in the water.
Ideally a Palm application would take your media, wherever they may lie (itunes, various folders, etc.) and bring it to the Pre. It need not be complicated, just some sort of front-end that would allow media transferring and management.

While I agree that social network applications (Facebook, myspace, et. al.) are probably a big deal for the Pre, I think Palm would be missing a great opportunity to utilize the "cloud" (a'la Synergy) to provide a "sync" function for video/music...

Now, unlike many here, I don't harbor a strong hatred for iTunes (may not be the best out there, but it serves my purposes). However, I do harbor said hatred for SBC/Cingular/AT&T (or whatever they're calling themselves today).

Personally, I can't wait. The Pre looks/sounds like everything I've been wanting in a handset for some time.

Just a thought.

the author clearly can't think out of the box. The beauty of WebOS is that it is platform independent, just like the web. that's the succes of the internet, and it will be the succes of WebOS.

But, he is right about one thing though: there really needs to be a way to sync music and movies to the pre automagically. My guess is that palm has something up it's sleeve about that. probably over-the-air syncing via your palm profile.

Hopefully the "killer app" will be WebOS plus the internet.

I agree that lack of iTunes is a big plus. The simplicity of iTunes with the addition of the ability to pick and choose whatever content sources without a proprietary distribution channel. I would like to see a downloader for the likes of Amazon's MP3 store and eMusic, but I'd rather be able to pick my own sources like I do on my PC.

Also, while basic Orb functionality should work on the Pre out of the box, an applet could go a long way towards making those 8GB pretty useful.

Itunes is the biggest reason why I would never get an iphone. I think the pre has a major advantage by not having something like that.

"Research in Motion’s BlackBerry Curve may be the U.S.’ top-selling consumer phone of the moment (according to the NPD Group), but there’s no question that Apple now has the “it” phone for the latter half of this decade."

the iphone hasn't even been out 2 years, how is that half a decade?

I still think that it needs a media sync function. If amazon/palm could partner to come up with an iTunes-like app, it could really help the Pre. It does need to be a lightweight application that looks in a certain folder for media unlike iTunes. I hate iTunes, but feel that is still better than just drag and drop to get media on a device.

Mass market killer app is blackberry keyboard + iphone interface = pre. The nuances that differentiate competing software (eg multitasking) will have meaning to the technorati and carry some marketing spin to the mass market for a handful of months. Beyond that, these things quickly become commoditized.

What the article above touches on is the really big question: What resources can palm bring to bare when its cash rich competitors respond to the pre version 1.0???

That article seemed bias. But then again so am I. On the other hand I'm not writing an article on a review site. The Pre not being made by Apple nor RIM is reason enough for me. WebOS and its integration with the cloud is the killer app.

I agree with most people when they voice their dislike for how iTunes locks you in with their particular way of organizing, syncing and controlling audio/video files but like in the article I must agree that Palm is taking a big risk by not creating that ecosystem. I believe that Apple may have been wrong for doing it the way they did but lets face facts, it worked...the platform whether you choose to believe it or not is known by the vast majority and it doesnt take rocket science to operate and control it...iTunes is a standard for most people in terms of music and video, I have very few friends that use other media players.......I wish the best for Palm and the Pre but I just don't know if they will be able to take on the giant that has, in less then a month, a 2 year head start.

An important question. Look at cloud based 'ndroid. FAIL or close to it. Don't see many droids on the streets of EssEff.
Now imagine iTunes without iPhone. Currently, iTunes is a mature platform which draws a lot of unexpected goodness to it, if iPhone didnt exist, Apple could very well License device third-party device access by other devices. Apple made music companies bow and gave consumers choice.
Palm shld develop an iTunes-like service which focused on data, for starters. Palm has lots of medical profession loyalty. Whatever Palm does do -- it can't be unfocused ot rest on its laurels.
And for various reasons a lot of data does not exist in the public "cloud," so PRE should consider have its own syncing app.

The WebOS platform doesn’t need an itunes format as that ties the user to one machine. Yes itunes makes it easy for beginners and intermediates to have all there media in one place regardless of whether it works well or not. But all the WebOS platform need is a bridge between your media and your WebOS experience wherever you are.

The Orb app for instance connects to your media as you have it on the computer of your choice and streams user selected media to your phone. Apply the same UI ethos as WebOS, use synergy features to its use and functions, incorporate the purchase and the management of apps, maybe incorporate the Amazon app features and you’re getting all that itunes offers and more wherever you may be.

Then you illustrate the ease of use and freedom gained when using WebOS in your life and Palms uptake will rocket.

I think it needs to be noted that there are many iphone users who have never sync with itunes and have simply bought the iphone because it’s a stylish and unique looking device. The appeal of the ease of use of the WebOS platform is what has Apple stepping up a gear or two. Apple has worked hard to build its “simple to use, simply works” image so they understand that as soon as the average Joe see’s the Pre in action they will migrate in much the same way as they moved from thinking PC’s were the only option in home computing.

When I see an apple computer I still have the image of dull cream boxes that cost the world to buy and ran a very unforgiving OS. Funny how things turn out.

I absolutely refuse to use iTunes. I never had problems finding apps for my previous Palm devices without a central, monitored store, and I don't anticipate having any difficulty for the Pre.

Well, I guess we have just identified the market for the Pre. People who refuse to a purchase vastly superior product for a variety of reasons, some valid, others less so, such as it has an Apple logo on it. I've read just about everything there is read about the pre, I have have yet to identify one reason that makes the pre a more compelling purchase than an iPhone or Blackberry.

I someone who purchased the very first Palm Pilot and later suffered immensely as a result of owning a Treo 680, I find the Pre so underwhelming it's hard to understand the hoopla other than the fact there are desperate Palm loyalists/Sprint subscribers who feel so marginalized they need to identify with a product that matches their personality.

The Pre has the best of both worlds: it's neither Apple nor Mickey$oft.

Apple really does make very good products, technologically refined and they invariably work the way they are supposed to. But the phrase "the way they are supposed to" is the key phrase. For the inflated purchase price, you buy yourself thralldom to the Apple Corporation. You can do nothing without Apple's permission and you will pay Apple to do it. The iphone and the ipod are wonderfully entertaining little toys. But eventually one gets tired of the permanent presence of Steve Jobs' hand in your wallet.

The fussy, busy, buggy, infinitely multi-layered Mickey$oft mobile is designed to irritate. And it does.

The Pre has nothing to do with either of them. For me, that alone makes it worth a try.

Cheers,

PF

What the Palm Pre offers is accessibility. It does not restrict itself to a proprietary software like iTunes. Clearly, the Palm Pre is open to all. Is there a need for an "ecosystem"? I think not. The only thing it needs is an application website, which BlackBerry has done as well.

What I do expect from Palm is their ever reliable Desktop PIM that you can synchronize your phone with.