As we suspected, many new Palm Pixi phones came out of the box with webOS 1.2.9 installed. That’s all well and good, since webOS checks for updates on a regular basis and downloads them in the background while you carry on with your daily business. Problem is, the Update app will only download over EVDO and WiFi, which in a way makes sense. EVDO and WiFi are nice and fast in comparison to the other wireless alternative on Sprint: 1xRTT.
So what is 1xRTT? Essentially, it’s Sprint’s 2.5G network, runs at a blistering 60 kbps to 80 kbps. Yes, kilobits per second, a speed that roughly translates to 10 kilobytes per second, in which case downloading the 126 MB webOS 1.3.1 update would take nearly 36 hours, and that’s assuming you managed to maintain peak rate for that whole day and a half. There's a reason that you don't see 1xRTT advertised much: it's really slow.
So it’s understandable that Palm would just not let you even try to deal with updating when you’re in a 1xRTT zone. The phone will just nag you and wait until you’re in a EVDO coverage area, where the download will take a mere 10-20 minutes, depending on your signal strength. Or you could hook up with WiFi and suck the whole thing down however fast your hardline internet connection runs.
But what if you’re like PreCentral forum member wirelesslog and live in an area with no EVDO coverage even nearby? And you have multiple Pixi phones. With no WiFi, there’s no way to pull down a webOS update while in a 1xRTT area, and we certainly don’t blame wirelessog for not wanting to drive five hours to the nearest EVDO market. So what’s he to do?
After a discussion with Palm, it was recommended that he wait for the webOS 1.3.1 Doctor for the Pixi to come out and use that to apply the update (and wipe the phones clean in the process). If you ask us, that’s unacceptable. Palm: web connected is good, but high-speed cellular access is not ubiquitous. It never will be, because to carriers there are some markets that simply aren’t worth the infrastructure investment. Since you cannot guarantee that we’ll have EVDO coverage everywhere we go, and nobody wants to spend days downloading an update, you have to offer a better solution than “Doctor it.” Wiping your phone clean for a system update is not an acceptable solution, in fact the only acceptable solution (apart from magically adding WiFi to sold phones) is to provide a downloadable update package. Get to it.
Thanks to ananimus for the tip!
Comments
I agree, need wifi in pixi-2, which should not take another year to come out.
Oh wow, now that sucks. I hope they are not selling this is No EVDO areas. They should have made Pixi have wifi. Bad move Palm, bad move....well, unless you don't like updates then you'll be very happy. :)
I don't have EVDO in my town. Yes, Sprint is selling Pixi.
I suppose....but why would you purchase a smart phone (sans Wi-Fi)that is so heavily dependent on EVDO if you live 5 hours from EVDO service in the first place?
I think the problem here is that Sprint did a poor job of selling the right phone to wirelessog.
Just saying.
Dont blame the user. Who sells a telephone devoid of an availible and needed 136mb update that was ready at POS?
Why pay for EVDO radios if you know you'll never use them?
Dont blame the user. Who sells a telephone devoid of an availible and needed 136mb update that was ready at POS?
Why pay for EVDO radios if you know you'll never use them?
wirelessog made an uniformed purchase. Even if he did get the 1.3.1 update, he's gonna run into the same problem when we get our next update. Don't buy a damn $100 phone and expect it to do the same thing that a $200 phone will do. The Pixi does not need WIFI! It is not aimed at power users. I am so tired of hearing about the Pixi not having the same feature set as the Pre that I'm about to upchuck. The Pixi is a low cost WEBOS device designed to motivate consumers to use WEBOS. Once they get hooked and want more features, then guess what? They buy a Pre and not a Blackberry or Iphone. I don't see why Precentral readers don't understand such basic marketing practices. IT DOESN't EVEN REMOTELY MAKE SENSE FOR PALM TO RELEASE AN ENTRY LEVEL SMARTPHONE AND GIVE IT THE SAME FEATURE SET AS ITS FLAGSHIP PHONE AND OFFER IT FOR $100 less!!!!!
Yep, i hear ya. Palm is stupid.
you mustve only read the bold words because I'm not saying Palm is stupid. I'm saying consumers are stupid to expect Palm to market an entry level device and give it the same feature set as the flagship device for less money! People can be stupid..not Palm as evidenced by your reply to my comment...LOL!
Yeah, this one was a gaping "oops." At the very least they could allow updates to trickle over the 1xRTT for the Pixi while idling.
I wonder if it'd be difficult to patch over the Updates app to not check for an EVDO connection similar to how the Amazon app was patched.
Wow... didn't see this coming... (sarcasm)
I recently moved from Chicago to Sioux Falls, and Swiftel owns the Sprint network here.. Swiftel sells EVDO phones (Pre, Pixi, Hero, Instinct, etc..) and Swiftel is only 1x data.
I'm sorry, but 1x areas should NOT be allowed to sell these phones, even more so if it is an affiliate area (maybe more incentive to actually get with the times and upgrade their network).
I feel sorry for the people in 1x data areas, and smart phones... trust me, they are worthless in 1x areas, and the only time I can really use my Pre is at home with WiFi (which defeats the purpose since I can use my computer at home, and not my phone!)
--edit--
to put it in prospective, it takes my phone 5 minutes (Yes, FIVE minutes) to connect to Preware while in 1x data. Half the time my backup fails because of the 1x so I backup while at home on Wifi, and it took over an hour for my Pre to download my profile to a new Pre on 1x data.
I can't take this much more! The first browser favorite on my Pre and on my laptop is PreCentral. If this whining and bitching continues I will change favorites... Yes everyone has a right to an opinion..Yes everyone has a right to express their opinion!!! My opinion is that the Pre is a GREAT smart phone (with some problems) Yet the comments on these posts have become so negative (and in my opinion SO OVERBLOWN AND TRIVIAL) That I have come to the tentative conclusion that there is not so much wrong with the Palm Pre as with the population of WUSSES that constantly bitch and whine about it. Yeah Palm can solve world hunger, global warming, war and strife all in one update! Get real People!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That's all I got to say except I love my Pre and Web Os and and looking FORWARD to the many improvements to come.
Keep whining wimps the world whines with you!!!!!!!!!!!
Has nothing to do with the Pre. Get over it. Just Palm being stupid again..
Why is it Palms fault? They set up parameters for their phone along with their carrier, Sprint. IMO, the person should have bought a Pre. The Pixie is the wrong phone for him. Or another phone on another carrier that has better service.
yeah you're right
I agree I love precentral but its just becoming a bitchfest
As has been said, this is not about the Pre.
Another issue that 1x has is that it's impossible to deliver an incoming call notification to the phone while a 1x transfer is active. So if the phone spends hours downloading an update via 1x, no calls or texts can arrive during the transfer.
So there's a reason behind not updating while on 1x besides "It's slow".
I can back that comment up!!
And to make matters worse, 1x LOVES to hang, and will stop downloading. Sometimes calls or txts will come in, and that does cause 1x to stop downloading, and cause the user to start over.
My wife has the Samsung Exclaim, and it wouldn't download a firmware update, had to do it back home in Chicago while in EVDO. My v950 won't update while in 1x also (not to mention losing my DC because of 1x data).
Ahhh, well that partially explains that then.
Ummm...didn't anyone else see this coming? Although I didn't know Palm wouldn't permit the download at all if not in EVDO range.
His best solution is to return it. Or hope for a 3G airave.
Hmm...this isn't an issue with devices that sync and update via a desktop connection. It isn't even an issue with devices that can take advantage of a wifi connection. If the only connection you have to the cloud, though, is 1xRTT then everything you do is going to be as slow as molasses. Ouch.
"A nation or civilization that continues to produce soft-minded men purchases its own spiritual death on the installment plan." Martin Luther King Jr.
the update for the pixi that had 1.2.9.1 on it that my friend bought on sunday showed that the 1.3.1 update was only 22mb not the full 126mb like the pre.
That means that the update was downloading with out my friend knowing about it. The screen shot above says 38mb.
Interesting...
I can't believe that Palm would not make available a standalone version of the patch to download to your computer and install it over USB.
1X isn't n.early as bad as people make it out to be, case in point I often listen to podcast on 1X and I streamed game 5 of the alcs on 1X flawlessly.
i'm pretty sure in my bandwidth test of it I get close to dialup speeds. Slow? Absolutely, too slow to use? Hell no, and actually I prefer it to a 1 bar evdo signal.
It's 80 kilobits/sec which translates to roughly 10-15 kilobytes/sec.
You need to check your math Derek. Over 1X, it would take 3.5 hours, not 36 hrs, given an average data speed of 80 kbps.
I have to agree with the folks who say that Sprint should not be selling smartphones in 1x markets.
The "no incoming calls while data is active" problem is so annoying that I actually turned off data roaming (roaming is always 1x) so I'd quit missing calls while roaming.
one other thing, why is doctoring it so bad...its actually my preferred way to apply updates. Nice clean install. Better than applying patches over patches and all the problems that come with that.
Maybe because some people don't want to delete, then restore x-number of GB of music, photos, etc. every time they need to apply an update.
Not to mention the stuff that's not "back up-able" ;-P like memos and tasks.
Technically, memos and tasks should backup now... but I have no experience with that yet.
Memos and Task do back up.
You should be backing up your USB drive anyway.
That said, I agree, most people won't want to apply updates this way, but if you live in an area without EVDO, this to me is the lesser of evils and part of living where you do and choosing the carrier you chose.
My point is this isn't something worth crying over. You have a fix, and it's a reasonable fix, with an outcome often better than the OTA option regardless of your network connection. So my point is I don't have a problem with Palm "recommending" that route.
btw, I am currently on 1x since I just did a speed test, 110kbps...mobile site is hopping...but I also agree, that downloading 100mb on 1x is a nigjtmare.
1X isn't n.early as bad as people make it out to be, case in point I often listen to podcast on 1X and I streamed game 5 of the alcs on 1X flawlessly.
i'm pretty sure in my bandwidth test of it I get close to dialup speeds. Slow? Absolutely, too slow to use? Hell no, and actually I prefer it to a 1 bar evdo signal.
Would it be possible for a 3rd party app to enable the Pre to reverse-tether to a laptop, either via bluetooth or USB? Windows Mobile devices can do that out of the box via ActiveSync, and I found it amazingly useful for phones without WiFi.
Agree with sbono above--3.5 hours, not 36 hours. It's still a long time, but it's not completely out of the realm of possibility. Palm needs to provide these folks a way for them to download the update to their computer, put it on their USB partition, and then allow the update to work.
...of course they can't do that without an update. :)
But seriously, I suspect Palm can fix this with something that they can download, like webOS doctor.
from your dial pad just press ##evdo# then choose evd only so you can download the the update
no big deal
cause i have a pre hope that can help
from your dial pad just press ##data# then choose evd only so you can download the the update
no big deal
cause i have a pre hope that can help
you just need to press ##data# then choose evd only so you can be able to download the update and surf the web
hope that can help
well that nworks on the pre i dont know about the pixi
I think you mean ##evdo#
Thanks for saving me the trouble.
You can always just update via the WebOS Doctor. It would also protect you from messing anything up too!
I see three possible solutions to this problem:
1) Most likely: Palm releases a desktop update app like WebOSDr that doesn't wipe out the phone and simply updates as it would OTA
2) Possible: Palm patches the system to allow 1xRTT updates. Would still be frustrating for those who would need to update first to get this feature.
3) Unlikely: Someone writes a "reverse DUN" app allowing a Pixi to use a PCs bluetooth connection for internet. Used to do this all the time on my T650.
What you have to understand though are the types of users Palm is targeting with the Pixi. All of those options are terrible.
I got the same message with my Pre over the weekend while trying to download the 1.3.1 update. I tried to work around it by roaming on Verizon (Lubbock, TX does not have EVDO for Sprint, just 1x or 4G. The Pre doesnt have a 4G radio for those wondering why I couldnt use the 4G/WiMax network). The Pre wont download the update while roaming either. My solution, drive to an apartment complex around campus and jump on an open wifi network to download the update.
Regardless, if you are going to put your phone on DEV mode and install any patches you need to install by USB cable to get PREWARE on that phone... If you want the updates, you need to install to your phone via USB. The phone should pop up a screen that says hook phone up to computer via USB or proximity Sync via Bluetooth (which would still be faster than 1x) or via Wifi (not included)
NO matter what the PIXI will always need to be pretty much connected via USB to get anything onto it in those areas...
Why didn't they include SYNC software with the phone given you ALWAYS need to USB it even to MOD the phone? So even the modders can't defend the lack of wifi on the Pixi...
Palm messed the Pixi up from the get go by not including Wifi...
I couldn't figure out why they would get rid of the wifi and keep the GPS. If one had to go, it should have been GPS. Maybe the wifi will be back in when it goes to verizon?
Well this limitation wouldn't be that big of an issue if it wasn't too big of a complication to keep EVDO at all times. Its the only reason why you should pay the extra few bucks for the pre to get wifi.
Didn't someone in the forums ask, What is the use of having WIFI?
...and they'll KEEP on asking, regardless of how many good reasons we supply.
How about having a drive that lets you to connect your pixi to the internet via usb.
Well the Pixi is *supposed* to be a replacement for the Centro (which I upgraded from) and it didn't have wifi either. Actually, the EVDO radio in that thing was on crack and I frequently d\l apps OTA with speeds in the mid 200's (KBPs)
I was never concerned with Wifi esp since I could *Destroy* 1G iPhones downloading files :). Of course there were no OTA system updates back then.
;)
This is NOT Palm's fault. No way. The Store where he baought it should have advised that if he were not going to use this in a EVDO area that he perhaps would be limited in the functionality of the phone. in fact, he is within his 30 days and should return the damn thing and spend a little more and get the Pre, unless perhaps he doesn't have WIFI either. OK, just kidding, Ii think perhaps Palm should send a couple engineers over to his house to perform the update for him, OK just kidding again.
Sarcasm aside, I can't fault Palm for this. It was their decision not to include WIFI on the Pixi. Pixi, as is, is a great phone. my wife loves it. does not miss the WIFI at all. 'Course we have EVDO all over the place and have not run into a situation where we would be out of EVDO for a prolonged period of time, either. But if we lived in a location devoid of EVDO I wouldn't be steeriing her to the Pixi. It's the purchaser's fault for buying the wrong tool for the job.
Sorry but Palm can't be responsible to cure all the world's ills. And I think it is disingenous to Blog about one person's ill-fated attempt at the Pixi, when clearly that person is in a situation where they shouldn't have bought it in the first place and expect full functionality.
"Sorry but Palm can't be responsible to cure all the world's ills."
but Palm could offer an update via USB e.g. thats sometimes a better solution than the updates palm is forcing over their users.
My area (Evansville, IN) is one of those areas that "just isn't worth it." My phone is running 1x right now and it's just terrible. I have more missed calls than anything because simply sending an email with pictures attached takes too long to upload (forcing all of my calls directly to voicemail).
It SOOOO SLOW! Luckily I have a Pre which utilizes WiFi but this area isn't exactly littered with hotspots so when I'm out and about. I don't even bother trying to benefit from my phone.
I love Sprint customer service but why pay for a top of the line phone on a sub par network? What's sad is, they advertise 3G in the area without telling customers this specific area is only 2.5G.
When the Pre becomes available on another network, I'm jumping ship. Sorry Sprint =/
Not to knock ya, because they do advertise having a national 3G network... but wouldn't you ask how the service is in your area before buying? It's pretty clear on their map that they only have 1x for you out that way. Even VZW isn't everywhere.
so glad i live in rdu the coverage and speed is incredible.
long drives with pandora ..
Not sure if anyone has mentioned this, but a final option could be to enable BT in webos to do networking.
This would actually be the best option since I am fairly certain bluetooth is significantly faster than 1X, although significantly slower than WiFi.
i just can't stop looking for it.
Champions Online Resources
Just one more example of how cluelss Palm is, and how stupid the decision to leave wi-fi out of the Pixi is. Palm is the gang that can't shoot straight. They keep shooting themselves in the foot.
you're just dumb! I'm buing the Pixi for my eight year old son, he does not need WIFI. The Pixi is aimed at kids standing at the bus stop. Palm is adverising it as amessaging phone. The last time I checked texting works fine on EVDO and 1xrtt.
Those who blame the purchaser are almost as clueless as Palm. You can't expect every potential buyer to be technically savvy, understand the differences between 1xRTT and EVDO, nor know that the phone can only be updated on a high speed network. Especially buyers of the Pixi, which is aimed at a different crowd than the higher-end Pre.
It might make sense to blame the store that sold it, but it really is Palm's responsibility to provide another method for updates. But Palm can't seem to punch its way out of the bag it's woven from its own mistakes.
In all reality it is not Palm's fault and it's not Sprint's fault and its not really a user fault either. It's the sale person at the store it was purchased at fault. They should really be doing information gather when talking to the person about the phones anyways and when looking up signal strength in the area know that it is only 1xRTT. I guess it is part Sprint's fault if they do not train their employee's that the new Palm devices cant update over 1xRTT. Simple fixes would be either a web update system or a system where you have to bring the phone into the store to receive updates(like you do with other phones that don't do OTA updates). Palm could change the notification system about updates being available to state that if your running on a 1xRTT signal only and don't have a WiFi capable device or an available WiFi signal to sue that you need to take it into a Sprint store to update. Simple fix for a phone that is geared more along the lines of a feature phone crowd then a power user. Is the fix they stated the best option? No it isn't and I am sure since this situation has come to light they are or most likely will be working on a fix for situations like this.
I think it was a simple oversight. Sprint Employees probably had no idea it would not update. The obvious correction to me is to offer a free Airave to those who already purchased the phone, and offer a discounted bundle to future buyers. Everyone acts like Sprint and Palm are the only ones to do this. Has everyone forgotten the metal band Apple had to remove from the iPhone because it shielded AT&T's horrible service?
Just another note: Beta testing really needs to be expanded to hardware. Palm thinks out of the box and should implement this idea...
(Yuma, AZ between Phx & San Diego on I-8) 1x it sucks... We have 2 Pixis and one Pre, The pre is OK so far due to Wifi and able to get the updates that way. But the Pixis no way. My questions are: Is there a map that shows the 1x and th Ev coverage for sprint? Has anyone tryed to upload the 22MB update from the pixi to the pc before installation? Has anyone been able to forward txt msg in the pixi with Pixi not updated ?
Want to leave a comment? Register for free!
In an effort to reduce comment spam, you need to log in to comment. Registration is fast, free, and easy and gives you access to comment, discuss the Palm Pre on the largest Pre forums on the 'net, enter contests, and much more. Join now!